Building Stronger Relationships: Proactive vs. Reactive Couples Counseling
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Show Notes
When is the best time to start couples counseling? Does it mean your relationship is doomed if you start couples therapy early in the relationship? Host Paige Bond sits down with Alexandria Turnbow to discuss all of the above and demonstrate strategies for how to calm the mind to have more productive conversations in your partnerships.
Alexandria is also inviting you to an upcoming workshop in Winter Park, FL titled 'The Art of Touch: Exploring Connection Beyond Expectations,' aimed at helping couples improve physical and emotional intimacy through safe and intentional touch practices.
05:37 Understanding the Wellness-Based Model
08:13 Proactive vs. Reactive Counseling
13:31 Improving Communication and Connection
21:42 Calming Techniques for Stress Relief and Couples in Crisis
25:48 The Power of Touch in Therapy
29:21 Foundations of Healthy Relationships
34:33 Proactive Mental Health Approaches
39:21 Upcoming Workshop: The Art of Touch
Alexandria is a licensed mental health counselor in Winter Park, FL and the founder of Mindful Perceptions. Her group practice has a wellness-based model of healing and offers individual therapy, couples counseling, KAP, psychedelic integration, and workshops! You can learn more via her website, Mindful Moments newsletter, and Instagram!
Connect with Alexandria Turnbow
https://linktr.ee/mindful_perceptions (This link includes links to our website, newsletter sign-up, Instagram, YouTube, Instagram, and consult booking.)
Connect with Paige Bond
Website: https://paigebond.com
Website: https://SweetLoveCounseling.com
Paige Bond specializes in helping individuals, couples, and intentionally non-monogamous partnerships feel grounded, confident, and connected in their love life. She is also the founder of Sweet Love Counseling providing therapy in CO, FL, SC, and VT. Paige loves educating people about relationships through being the host of the Stubborn Love podcast, hosting workshops, and speaking at conferences.
Free Jealousy Workbook:
http://www.paigebond.com/calm-the-chaos-jealousy-workbook-download
Free People Pleasing Workbook:
https://www.paigebond.com/people-pleasing-workbook
Attachment Dynamics Workshop:
https://www.paigebond.com/attachment-dynamics-workshop-sign-up
Disclaimer: This podcast and communication through our email are not meant to serve as professional advice or therapy. If you are in need of mental health support, you are encouraged to connect with a licensed mental health professional to receive the support needed.
Mental Health Resources: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255SAMHSA’s National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 for free, 24/7 crisis counseling.
Intro music by Coma-Media on pixabay.com
Transcript
(generated by AI - please excuse errors)
[00:00:00] Paige Bond, LMFT: Welcome to the Stubborn Love Podcast. I'm your host, Paige Bond. I'm a Gottman and attachment trained, solution focused marriage and family therapist. I specialize in helping folks design and build their dream relationships through structured therapy and resources. And also use modalities that go beyond traditional talk therapy, like accelerated resolution therapy and psychedelic assisted psychotherapy.
School didn't teach us how to be good at love, so I created the Stubborn Love podcast to help you navigate it. Every episode has actionable tips that will help you create a happier, healthier, and more fulfilling life with the people you love. Join me on this journey of love and learning for the stuff they didn't teach you in relationship school.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Stubborn Love. Today's pretty cool because we have a guest I've actually known for a very long time, Alexandria.
Alexandria is a local therapist here, a licensed mental health counselor in Winter Park, Florida. She is the founder of Mindful Perceptions.
She's got a group practice. She's doing a lot of stuff. This is a wellness based model of healing that she offers. She sees individuals, couples, does ketamine assisted psychotherapy, like we've talked about on this podcast before, and does the psychedelic integration. She does workshops. She's got one coming up soon that we'll probably talk about later.
And if you wanna catch her on our website, she's got a great newsletter called Mindful Moments. So I'm so excited to talk to you today, because we're gonna talk about the different styles of, couples counseling. And, why it would be in people's best interest to come in sooner rather than later, right?
Oof. Yeah. Boy. So before we get into that, I always like to introduce my guests. I know I just did, but I want you to introduce yourself. Sure. could you talk a little bit about your journey on becoming a counselor and creating this beautiful business that, and incorporates, more of the wellness based model for yourself?
[00:02:10] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. thank you so much for the introduction. It's, exciting and really fun to have someone else mirror you. Mm-hmm. I've been on a few podcasts, but it's been a while, so to hear oh, that is me. those are things that I have done. So kind of fun. so yes, like she said, I'm Alexandria.
And I moved to Orlando back in 2015 for the master's program at UCF, which is where I'm met Paige. And I really fell in love with counseling when I learned about marriage and family counseling, that was even a thing. I grew up in a really small town, like counseling was not a thing that was talked about.
I did not even have an intro to psych class in high school. that was not a thing. and so when I went to college and started to learn about the different realms, like that systems model just made sense to me. Oh, if you can work with multiple people, whether that's like parent and child, like boyfriend- girlfriend, girlfriend- girlfriend, like whatever it is, you get more information, right?
You have more, I perceive like ability to help the system, like kind of ripple effect versus just one person's perspective and helping them. so I really fell in love with that. It just made so much sense for my own life and my own experiences. and so I sought out marriage and family programs like in the country.
And so then I moved to Orlando to go to UCF in 2015, and I graduated from there in 2018. I worked at a residential facility for adolescents for a while. that was tough in a lot of ways. Also rewarding in other ways. but in through that I did some like family therapy as well, learning more about the systems and working with like the teens, seeing like how they ended up making the choices that they did because of the family environment that they were in.
it really validated a lot of things I already knew and believed. but I also was very limited in my ability to. Help them. I feel as teens, like they only have so much control over their lives. they don't have as much autonomy. They can't make certain decisions for themselves.
and also the system of the organization that I worked under, like the management didn't seem to have the kids' best interest in mind, very much like wellness model focused on the behavior, the problem, and that just didn't align with my worldview, my belief of individuals. And so that's when I realized that, oh I have a wellness based model of healing. I think everyone has things that they could benefit in learning and growing from and needed to grow beyond those limitations. And so I started my practice in November of 2019. And, went to full-time right as COVID started. so definitely a transition, but I've had my practice mindful perceptions ever since.
And, about a year ago, a little over a year ago, I, brought on Maya. so she's a registered intern that works with me and I now have a graduate student intern as well. so yeah, so my group practice is evolving.
[00:05:36] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yes. And I love how that, you were helping other clinicians grow and learn about this wellness based model.
For people who aren't familiar with the idea of what wellness based model of therapy Is, can you talk about what that looks like?
[00:05:51] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Sure. So in the kind of western, what I would call like medical model, think about like when you go to the doctor, a lot of people go to the doctor when there is a problem.
Okay? There's something wrong. You're experiencing symptoms, so you're going to focus on a specific problem. When they fix it, give you medicine, treatment, whatever, then you don't go to the doctor anymore, right? So that's more of a medical model, like you're looking for like problem, you're treating the symptoms, whereas like a wellness model it often incorporates the more, eastern modalities and viewpoints as well. And it just more of a mindset that we all are growing and evolving and have things that we could improve on or need help with. And there's not a clear start and stop. you know, you're coming in for anxiety, but I might explore okay, what are your sleeping habits like, what are your eating habits like?
the people that tell me they have anxiety, but they're drinking like 24 ounces of coffee as soon as they wake up. Okay. is it anxiety or are there other factors like going on? So I really like to explore like a person's overall wellness. Like how often are you moving your body, going outside, hanging out with friends.
I'm not seeking a diagnosis per se to treat that. I wanna help them, look at themselves and their lives through this like overall healing lens.
[00:07:25] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. This reminds me of the wellness wheel that like got introduced to us, I think like the first semester of graduate school. and how you like really touch on each areas, right?
there's the career, the social, the emotional sounds, like you're also taking care of physical and then like the mental, so like you really touch on all the pieces that, that really need to be tuned in or improved upon to, to feel good about moving about life daily, huh? Yes.
[00:07:55] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: And I love that you bring in the wellness model.
I haven't thought of that graphic in a while. Yeah. But it is something earlier on in my practice that I would use a lot. It's like, let's in the first couple sessions, let's look at what is your overall wellness, because people aren't often like zooming out and viewing their lives through that lens.
[00:08:13] Paige Bond, LMFT: and so looking at this as more of a preventative rather than a. reactive model. What difference do you see in results with people? or even in the duration of treatment or what treatment looks like from the proactive versus reactive model.
[00:08:32] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. they start to maybe embrace counseling a bit more. It helps to dissolve some of the shame and like stigma that comes with it. I'm not talking to them and looking at them through this lens of like major depressive disorder or your A DHD necessarily, but what are factors that are influencing that?
Like how can we address the deeper roots of what's going on there. that goes back to even the systems lens. Like even when I work with individuals, I like to learn about what was it like growing up in your household? What was school like for you? what are your past relationships like, looking for those patterns over time, versus just what's going on right now to get kinda that broader.
And so I, it perceived that it helps people have like self more self-awareness of how their daily habits or how their lifestyle does influence the way that they feel, right? Their mood, their thought processes. so increasing the overall self-awareness and honestly like their belief in Making a change Of getting out of this like rut or the, depth or whatever they are experiencing.
[00:09:50] Paige Bond, LMFT: there's more hope when they're not as deep in that rut. Really using therapy as a last resort where it's gonna be harder to climb out of it.
[00:10:00] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Right, right.
But some that might view oh, I have this diagnosis and this is just the way I am for the rest of my life.
Like it might be a terminal illness and that's just not how I view it. not that some things aren't lifelong, but I don't view it as the same way of an illness or a disease per se.
[00:10:18] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I hate the DSM, I hate diagnosing, aren't we all just people and aren't we all just struggling?
these are all very normal things and I think any of us, like under the right circumstances and granted, I'm overgeneralizing a little bit here.
[00:10:33] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: sure.
[00:10:33] Paige Bond, LMFT: Because there can be different genetics and brain chemistry and yada, yada, but We can all be really susceptible to pretty much any of the diagnoses that these
[00:10:42] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: People created, at one point in time. Yeah. And are still, working through and revising constantly. And so they don't have all the answers. And so why are we relying on this as our only idea of like, how things should be treated?
Right. And a lot of the clinicians that I'm like closest to view a lot of the diagnosis or symptoms we see are rooted in our, childhood development anyway, like adverse childhood experiences and childhood trauma.
And so it just, it gets really clouded.
[00:11:14] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah.
[00:11:15] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: there was something else you had said that reminded me of couples
yeah, yeah. So proactive versus reactive, like that's similar to how I view. couples counseling or really counseling in general. There's a quote that says, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the next best time is right now.
[00:11:38] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah.
[00:11:39] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. that's, it's kind of treatment, right?
sure. It may have been more helpful if you started before, but if you're addressing it now, No better time to start working on it.
[00:11:48] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah, why put it off? I really love that quote. I've never heard of it and oof. That, that is so true for people coming into the office. so you try to, as your best, get people in sooner where problems aren't like, making them in crisis and stuff.
can you talk a little bit about like. How, I mean, I imagine that's pretty hard. Because I don't know about your practice, but a lot of the times, usually people will start to reach out for a consult when something's already gone wrong or when they're at each other's throats or it's Even, maybe even years into the making. And so I'm wondering, if you see like a ratio of people being proactive versus reactive. and if it's harder to get those more proactive, people in the office..
[00:12:34] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. So similar to what you described, the majority of couples that come in say oh, we've been thinking about it for a while, but da, da, da.
Or, sometimes it comes up that one partner is cheating. So they're there, or like the conflict's been going on for so long now one's like threatening to leave. there usually is some type of like catalyst that brings them in. So I like to ask in the beginning like, what made you decide, like now was the time you want therapy?
what really pushed you to doing this? And I definitely have noticed different styles of counseling that evolve depending on if there is some type of crisis versus if they are wanting to improve their communication skills. which that's another thing I notice a lot of people start out that way, oh, we wanna improve our communication.
It's one of the most common things people say, but what I've learned is what a lot of them really mean is they wanna improve their connection.
[00:13:38] Paige Bond, LMFT: Ooh. Okay. Talk about what the difference is because everyone, I get the same thing. we need better communication skills. So
[00:13:46] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: yeah.
[00:13:46] Paige Bond, LMFT: Talk about how at the root of it, what they're really meaning is connection.
[00:13:51] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. Yeah. So I perceive that as humans, it's our human nature biologically. Like we need connection from others, right? And as adults, like that can feel like more limited. Like maybe not as much like touch, if you are not that close with like friends. And so a lot of people mostly get that from their intimate partner, their romantic partner, right?
And so when there is a conflict, when there're misunderstandings, when it feels like they're speaking different languages, it creates a disconnection, right? And there's those, uh, younger parts of us that are like longing and seeking that out. But they're not receiving it. Right. And that can create frustration and more disconnection and it like grows and grows.
And so people think the, and the solution may be working on communication, but I guess they see the deeper root of it, or working on communication. But the deeper root is that they want to be connected. They wanna be understood, right? They want to be respected or valued.
[00:15:00] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. And that kind of reminds me of, I mean, the idea that, oh, we can improve communication brings me to this place where I've learned:
we're always going to have bad communication. Like communication is probably one of the hardest things to do, and I think it's about the recovery. And it sounds like that's what the connection is. what is the recovery from all of these miscommunications that we're going to do?
Are we going into the fire and trying to repair it or rebuild what just happened, or, you know, are we going to just avoid it? Avoid the connection,
[00:15:39] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: right.
[00:15:39] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Okay. So a big part of your work is helping people connect better.
[00:15:44] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:46] Paige Bond, LMFT: Can you talk a little bit more about that process, like what that would look like if,and I almost wanna do this in the two different versions, if someone is
[00:15:52] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: sure.
[00:15:53] Paige Bond, LMFT: In the proactive version, and they're, not so much in a crisis, and then also the ones who are, they're struggling or maybe if you use the same skills and interventions.
[00:16:02] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah.
[00:16:02] Paige Bond, LMFT: but I'm curious, you know, what do you do? Couple comes in, sits down and Tells you, Hey, we're miscommunicating all the time.
And you find out well, okay. You're feeling disconnected. What's next?
[00:16:13] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah, so my style of couples counseling, I meet with the couple together first. you know, general the questions like, what made you decide now is the time you're seeking counseling? What else have you tried? What's been helpful, what's not been helpful?
what are patterns that maybe you have noticed throughout your relationship, things like that. And then in the next session, I meet with each partner individually. So meet with one for an hour, and then at another time meet with the other one. And then I'll ask them a similar series of questions. things like how do you express anger?
How does your partner express anger? when do you feel most loved by your partner? How do you express love? what were your childhood experiences of relationships, right? So trying to get an overview, like of what their exposure is. do they have experienced a healthy relationship? Have they been modeled that for them?
what is sex like for them? Right? When's the last time they've enjoyed having sex? all of those things I like to hear from like the individual, because sometimes. In the couple, like they'll filter their answers, right? Might not wanna upset or offend the other. And I tell them that the point of the individuals is not to keep secrets.
so that's not what we're doing, but it's to build a rapport and get to know that part of the unit a bit more. so then coming back in the fourth session, so back altogether, I might notice some or highlight things that I observe Hey, like you both acknowledge like this is something you're really struggling with.
So while it may not be going well, you both are on the same page that it's not going well and that's great.
[00:18:00] Paige Bond, LMFT: Something's in common there
[00:18:02] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: because sometimes there's a disconnect there. Oh, I think this is great. This person does not. Right. So that's like another layer to address. Yeah. so I like highlight the things that are similar and start with some like basic communication skills.
So one of them is like speaker listener technique.
[00:18:22] Paige Bond, LMFT: Mm-hmm. Okay. So what's that?
[00:18:24] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: So that really means that you're using, when the person is talking, you're using I statements. So if I was the speaker and you were the listener, right. I might say something like. I felt really frustrated when I came home from work and you'd been home all day and the kitchen was a disaster.
So I'm talking, I'm using an I statement, saying how I feel. And your role at that time is The listener, is to listen to understand what I'm saying and what I'm feeling. Not just listening to respond. It's oftentimes there's so much like back and forth, like people are just listening to respond.
[00:19:02] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah.
[00:19:03] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Not really getting to the depth of what's going on.
[00:19:06] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. So a listening to respond statement, which is what we should move away from doing, would maybe sound something like, well, you also had yesterday off, you could have taken care of the house. That's not a great response, huh?
[00:19:20] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Right, right. Then then once that person was like, oh, well what about when I did this?
And right now you're just hit for tat and comparing, going in this like spiral circle, you're escalating. No one feels understood. No one wants to clean the kitchen. You're both still not getting your needs met.
[00:19:37] Paige Bond, LMFT: And,what would be a proper listener response then?
[00:19:41] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah, so a listening response for that one might be:
it sounds like you're really disappointed that it seems like I didn't do anything today.
[00:19:52] Paige Bond, LMFT: That's it, huh?
[00:19:53] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah, and then that gives the speaker an opportunity to say. yeah. that is how I'm feeling. Or they can say, well, no, it's not that I don't think that you did anything. It's that I think you prioritize what was important to you versus what was important for our household.
[00:20:11] Paige Bond, LMFT: So it gives them the opportunity to either say, yes, that is what's going on for me, or like, no, here's a correction. I actually need you to understand this part of it.
[00:20:21] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Right, because if there's not that opportunity for the clarification, right? So then the listener may have walked away thinking like, wow, like she doesn't think I did anything.
she didn't even acknowledge that I like mowed the yard or I took the kids to their, dance practice. The person might walk away with an assumption, whereas that might not have been their intention, right? They weren't intending to disregard all the things that they did do. They just wanted to highlight the frustration of how important this was to them.
[00:20:52] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Now I can imagine for people coming in more as the reactive place and they're in crisis That an exercise like that would be a lot harder than compared to the Proactive couples. Are there some speed bumps that you notice people running into when trying to implement an exercise like that when they're already in crisis and if so, what do you do?
[00:21:15] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. So what I would do that would be slightly different is like when I would bring that up. So I still see the value in it. 'cause it also really slows down communication. Versus the kind of ping pong. but if both one or both partners are really dysregulated, meaning they are either like flooded with emotion, shut down, really easy to anger. Then in the sessions, when I bring them back together, I would start with teaching like mindfulness practices.
[00:21:49] Paige Bond, LMFT: Ooh,
[00:21:49] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: regulating skills. that's one of the components I teach with like couples and individuals. we would start with a breath exercise.
And I tell them like in the beginning, like the first session or consult, whenever I meet with them, that is part of my style. And why I view it as important and valuable and that I encourage them to do those things in between session. And if they're not, and. I can't guarantee that, you know, anything's gonna change.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. Yep. And and when I bring them back together, okay, let's start with a breathing exercise. So one I like to start with is humming. So I'll have them inhale through the nose and when we exhale, we're gonna just hum and feel that vibration in our throat.
Hmm.
And I would have them do that three or four times. Like really practicing in session. Okay. It's okay if you think it's weird. It's okay. If you don't know how this is gonna help, that's fine. We can allow all those thoughts. Yep. But can we do it anyway?
[00:22:55] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah.
[00:22:56] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Really intend breathing, humming.
Really feeling that vibration. That practice, helps to regulate the nervous system by activating the vagus nerve. It like trickles down. It touches all our major organs. I tell people it's like you pet your pet, you're like petting your organs.
[00:23:15] Paige Bond, LMFT: I love that.
[00:23:16] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Calming, soothing. And so when people are in a more balanced state, they have more access to their brain capacity.
[00:23:27] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah,
[00:23:28] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: They have more tolerance, more patience, more ability to listen, to understand. So I teach a lot of those skills in the beginning to help, prime. The system to be able to listen better, to be able to understand.
so I would start there. the types of people that come in like in a crisis or like desperate often have a thing they wanna talk about and explore, and we do that. But I say okay, I might pause you throughout and we might come back to regulating.
[00:23:59] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah,
[00:24:00] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Like weaving that in.
Whereas if it was a more proactive, I would teach the skills and then over time as I notice something coming up or being disre would teach, then. So I do the similar thing. Just maybe a different order.
[00:24:16] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Especially for people who are in that more stress state. I mean, they'll need something to calm them down so they can have a conversation.
I really loved that, e exercise. I haven't even done that before and I loved feeling the vibration of my throat doing that. It kind of reminds me of the,it's similar to like when we sigh and we Yes. Do that big, full body ah. Exhale.
[00:24:41] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Any audible exhale. I like the hummings, the vibrating.
It's a similar concept of people that really like to sing. They find that soothing singing vibrates the throat. I actually had a client ask me if, if that's why they like to yell so much that, and I was like,
[00:24:57] Paige Bond, LMFT: that's a good question, huh?
[00:24:58] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: And I was like, huh. I do think like yelling like same effect, like it is vibrating your throat.
It can be cathartic.
[00:25:05] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah.
[00:25:06] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: But you know, there are, benefits and drawbacks. Are you like yelling with just yourself right. In a container? Are you yelling at someone and directing that energy at them?
[00:25:17] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah,
[00:25:17] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: it could be more harmful. But that did give me some, room to think okay, there is some power in anger and releasing.
[00:25:25] Paige Bond, LMFT: There's nothing better than a primal scream at me. yeah. on the top of a mountain somewhere. I'm describing my dream place.
[00:25:34] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah.
[00:25:34] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. I really loved, that tip. with the, exhale are, do you have any others that maybe you can give the listeners and viewers of
[00:25:42] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah.
[00:25:43] Paige Bond, LMFT: What else you might do early on to help people, like stay regulated and calm?
[00:25:48] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. I can explain one that's a little different, incorporates the body a bit more. so sometimes people. Their bodies need to feel more nurtured or more soothed, right? So some people respond really well to touch, right? So things like kind of crossing your arms and doing some like gentle, like squeezing, right?
Like as you're listening, like, okay, like comforting yourself. same thing. You can do your legs like I view. grounding practices and somatic practices as personalized. So the ones that work best for me and I really like, might be different than the ones that work best for you, but I encourage to try a variety of them to see which ones you, your body responds better to.
crossing your arms on your chest like butterfly, tapping to just kind of alternate the tapping. Things like that. Like putting pressure on your chest. trying those out. Okay. while you're listening. 'cause a lot of people are fidgeting and doing things anyway. Yep. So like, okay, can we do that with more intention?
Right. You're still moving your body, you're still moving that energy. But in a different way.
[00:26:56] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Now you're noticing it and focusing.
[00:26:58] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:59] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. I love that. Cool. lots of ideas for listeners to try. I'm excited to see. I mean, I never do see that's a tough thing about being on a podcast.
I never know. are you people out here doing these things that we are suggesting? I hope so, and I hope it's helping.
[00:27:15] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yes. That's how I have, felt about my newsletter. so I started that in May of this year, and I've been sending it out every two weeks. I write one once a month, and then Maya writes one once a month.
So it comes out every two weeks. and in that we have, usually the first paragraph is some kind of reflections, like something that's been coming up for us lately. there might be a couple reflection questions. but they also have some type of grounding skill, like regulation, like step-by-step thing.
Like they're intended to be very like, practical, like bite-size insights to help uplift your inbox in your day. and so I wonder okay. How many people are actually reading this? okay, I can see the metrics of who opened it. Right? Yeah. I can't see the metric of who's practicing the practice, you know?
Right. And so I have had a few people, like a client just this week, brought up oh, I saw the pictures from your last event in your newsletter. I really love that. Or. Someone will bring up like, oh, I really liked that quote at the bottom. And so I love when people give me the feedback and the validation, like, wow, like you are reading it.
Great.
[00:28:22] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Yeah. it's so helpful because like otherwise, Are we doing something that's not working for you, we need to know.
[00:28:28] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Right, right. I, I've always, really appreciated like feedback, like even like school assignments, tell me what could be different. give me the feedback. I love that.
[00:28:38] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yes. Same.
I hope you're enjoying this episode. I wanna take a moment to invite you to sign up for my free Attachment Dynamics workshop. I have partners use this as a foundation before we get started in relationship therapy.
By watching this, you'll learn how to recognize negative communication patterns, understand how power dynamics show up in conflict, and most importantly, discover ways to turn conflict into opportunities for deeper emotional connection. And the best part, this is free for you. Make sure to head to paigebond.com or hit the link in the show notes to access it for free.
Now let's get back to the episode.
So thinking about going back to like couple stuff and the things that you would do early on,in treatment and Helping people, what are some other like big Pillars of your practice.
[00:29:33] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. like another theme that I like for people to notice is the type of energy or connection, they're like directing to their partner, right? And In relationship the person we're spending the most time with, right? That could be a friend. It might not even be a romantic partner, it could be your roommate, but the person you're spending the most time with and you feel the closest with, often see like mini versions of you, right?
They see your best self, your stressed self, your wounded self, right? And that can be a really beautiful thing, but it also can breed more conflict if the other person is not able to hold that space and to not take it personally. like even in marriage vows, it's like for better or for worse, right?
Like you will be around this person like during your worst of times.
[00:30:29] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yep.
[00:30:29] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: That doesn't mean that whatever you're dealing with that's like hard or stressful, upsetting that you have to direct at them. And that's what often comes up, right? Like they might be having this really like that be really stressed at work, but they can't go off on their boss.
Right? Or don't feel like they can like tell off their dad, right? But they get home. And they take it out on their partner.
[00:30:53] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yep.
[00:30:54] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Right. Which their partner may have done something like small, but not to the gravity of the reaction. So helping people increase their awareness of that. Hey, this is the person that you think says supports you the most and you love the most.
So why are you being so mean to them? Or why are you like dismissing or disregarding their needs? so helping to really like notice that,
[00:31:18] Paige Bond, LMFT: yeah. Are there any tips for people who really struggle with that self-awareness? is there anything like even deeper than that, that you have to go to a next level or something, if you will?
[00:31:30] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:30] Paige Bond, LMFT: to help them really notice how their energy is
[00:31:33] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah.
[00:31:34] Paige Bond, LMFT: Interacting with others around them.
[00:31:36] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. I use, internal family systems. Or an IFS model. it might also here called parts work. For those of you that are unfamiliar, but I really help people understand like the different parts of themselves and which of their parts is getting activated in those moments.
Right. So if one person's wounded part is activating another person's wounded part, neither one of them is speaking from that like grounded like self energy. Yeah. And so teaching them how to nurture their wounded parts to strengthen that self energy. To be able to postpone arguments or discussions at a time when one or both feels more regulated, is something I teach a lot in the beginning.
something else that I find helpful sometimes, especially for couples that live together is helping them to see how many layered relationships or roles they have with one person. For example, one of the couples that I work with, they are really great friends. Like their friendship is going well, but their role of roommates is not going well.
[00:32:52] Paige Bond, LMFT: Division of labor,
[00:32:54] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: right? Like they have different things that are important to them, different needs. One might really want, things like put away and tidy. The other might leave things out and that's fine with them. And so their friendship is fine and they are working towards having a better overall, romantic relationship.
But then this roommate role that they also have Is where a lot of the conflicts are. So helping them see like, Hey, this is an area of your relationship that's actually going really well. But your challenges are with them as a roommate, not with them as a boyfriend, or them as a partner. So those are conversations that I think can be helpful for self-awareness too.
[00:33:36] Paige Bond, LMFT: Ooh, I hadn't thought about it in and not. Context. 'cause we do wear a lot of different hats in relationships. It can be, yeah. I won't even go into 'cause there are so many to count, but, oh, that's so interesting. and I love how just because one part of the relationship that you're in that role doesn't mean like the relationship is failing.
[00:34:00] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah,
[00:34:00] Paige Bond, LMFT: like other parts can still be really successful at the same time, so I I love how you pull in the positive there for them to help them hold onto like the hope of what is going okay for them.
[00:34:11] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. Yeah. And also helping them see how that the conflict in like the roommate role, is then impacting their, whether it's like sexual intimacy or their ability to connect in other ways, if they're like harboring this, like resentment or frustration over here, like the roles definitely bleed into one another, but that kind of zooming out can help a little bit.
[00:34:32] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. So I'm thinking about like a, this is more of a macro sense of things. What do you think it is that needs to change or shift in our culture of the idea of mental health to get people in the door in that more proactive category rather than waiting until they're in crisis? what is it that needs to change to pull people in earlier?
[00:34:58] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: More education on the benefits.
[00:35:03] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah.
[00:35:04] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Like you would be hard pressed to find an area of your life that your mental health doesn't affect. Right. Right. Like whether you think your issue is like a financial, work related,it's cyclical and that affects your mental health. Your mental health affects this.
And so just it being more interwoven in the fabric of all of those areas. like I have a colleague that is a, mindfulness and somatic coach, and she's been working with companies like teaching more like mindfulness based, programs for organizations, right? Helping to weave that in more like in schools, right?
Teaching more like earlier on, like teaching children more about their emotions and that it's normal and ways to regulate, that your nutrition, your sleep, your movement, nature, all affect it. I think that there are a lot of different angles that it could be addressed from but just more normalized.
[00:36:02] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah, you're right. I do wish we had education earlier on, can we start in elementary school please? 'cause like those kiddos still need help and support with all those big feelings.
[00:36:12] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yes. Uh, so much.
[00:36:14] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Okay. So if more people knew about the benefits, what are some other benefits? Being more proactive.
[00:36:22] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: More benefits. the benefits of learning better communication skills, learning better listening skills help not only in your romantic relationship, they help improve your friendships. They can help improve your relationships with your family. They can help with peers and colleagues, coworkers, like I see it really as like a ripple effect.
Relational skills can influence any relationship that you have. The types of content you might talk about is different, but the foundational skills are the same. learning to when it's best to take the time out. Take a break versus oh, we have to resolve this tonight or today.
So I see that the benefits really can show up in multiple areas of life. if you are addressing the problems or tiffs when they're just starting, then it is less likely that things will escalate. into saying things that are really hurtful to your partner that you can't take back. Preventing things from getting physical.
If you're learning to regulate your emotions when they're starting to bud, it's like a three, a four, A five will help you to learn to reign that in so it's not escalating at like a nine 10 and you can't control it anymore, right? Those parts of your brain aren't functioning.
And so I see it as really, preserving the quality of the relationship, preserving your sometimes even like integrity, like your own health and wellbeing, like helping your blood pressure, right? Your stress levels like,
[00:38:04] Paige Bond, LMFT: yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's plenty of benefits. There's no reason not to come in earlier.
[00:38:12] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah. Another thing that I think people make assumptions of is some people might only need to come for a short time.
yes, you're coming to counseling, but maybe you come for two months consistently and feel like you have enough skills to address it, and then you go back on your own and you know, maybe you're good for six months or a year, and you're like, Hey, I think it would actually be really helpful to check in again.
I'm open to that style of therapy. I think there's benefit in that. some people do just want to address a thing. They don't want to get into the roots or they might have other healing practices that they do and they just want some help and learning some skills. Great. So people I think perceives sometimes it's just like huge commitment.
If I go, I have to keep going or I can't not go and there are a lot of different styles of therapy.
[00:39:04] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Yeah. So they're not locked in 52 weeks a year seeing you. Yeah. Good, good. Yeah. So there's this flexibility. Cool. Yeah. Is there anything else about proactive versus reactive that you wanted to touch on?
I also, before we like end, I wanted to touch on this really cool workshop that you have coming up. So was there anything else before moving on to that so you can tell listeners.
[00:39:31] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: No, I think, I think we have a really good overview. you know, if they wanna learn more, feel free to reach out.
Paige is gonna put a link to, our link tree that has our website and the newsletter and all those things. You can email me, if you want more information about a specific concept, but I think that's a really great, encapsulation of, Couples counseling.
[00:39:50] Paige Bond, LMFT: Cool. Okay, so speaking of the mindfulness, and it reminds me of like how we were using touch earlier.
[00:39:58] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:58] Paige Bond, LMFT: You're doing a workshop partnering with someone, around those areas. So can you talk a little bit about what you have going on?
[00:40:05] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yeah, I would love to. so on October 17th, it's a Friday, my colleague Jesse and I are doing a workshop titled The Art of Touch Exploring Connection Beyond Expectations.
Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so, um, like Paige just said, so I'm a licensed mental health counselor, and Jesse is a licensed massage therapist. And so we are partnering to do this workshop for couples that's really born out of my own experiences personally, and also hearing patterns of experiences of people that I work with.
I have learned that some people in relationships might shy away from physical touch because they perceive that physical touch leads to sex. And they may not want to have sex, or they might not feel comfortable that day or yet with that person. So that means they can't have physical touch at all.
They might not cuddle or they might not hug or, ask for a massage because they're not sure how to create a container where they just wanted that, then say, no, I actually don't wanna have sex. Or even if they're receiving a massage, the amount of people that tell me that they didn't speak up when it was painful, or maybe they actually wanted more pressure, they're afraid to give feedback 'cause they don't wanna upset the person or they don't wanna make them feel insecure.
Like there's so many nuances in relationship people are like tiptoeing around or afraid to speak up, might have their own traumas from where maybe they did speak up and it wasn't respected or it wasn't well received. so that's the theme of our workshop, like teaching how to talk about, physical connection.
talk about ways of building intimacy aside from having sex. Jesse is going to talk about creating a container like, okay, we're opening this container of connection and massage and playfulness and how to like close that container after. she's gonna be doing like demonstrations and people have the opportunity to do, like massage, like with their partner.
We're doing a hand massage and a head massage, right? So fully clothed, you know, very safe, but learning like, oh, they're like. Other ways we can connect that are, that might feel safe to build more safety and connection within the relationship.
[00:42:34] Paige Bond, LMFT: Okay. So the art of touch isn't about learning how to massage your partner correctly it's about Oh, so many other things. What I hear is like. Learning the skills of assertiveness to bring up what feels important to you. Being able to like, say no and have boundaries and creating a really safe space to be able to ask for or decline physical touch. That feels good.
[00:42:58] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Yes. And the decline is so important, and also being able to explain why.
hey, it's not that I, don't want to, maybe I'm feeling a bit sore today or a bit more vulnerable today. maybe I just wanna be held instead. learning to be able to help a person, your partner, understand what you're experiencing, right? Because I often advocate like no one else.
No one can know what you are physically experiencing. We can try to explain it via words and gestures, but like you are the only one that can feel that. So really honoring your experience and your intuition and finding a partner who is open and receptive, like they want to learn your inner world, they want to respect your boundaries, they want you to say no, and highlighting those aspects of relationship.
[00:43:53] Paige Bond, LMFT: that's so beautiful. Ah, I'm so excited. And it looks like a really affordable workshop for people too. So
[00:44:01] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: yeah, it's $75 for the couple. for each couple, and it's on Friday, October 17th at six o'clock in Winter Park. if you click on the link in the bio of this podcast, you'll see another link for the couples workshop.
it'll populate on there and once you, pay and register for the course, we'll send you the full address. It also has our contact information if you have any questions. but we're really excited about that.
[00:44:29] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yay. I can't wait to hear all about it. I hope it goes so well. Yeah. Cool. we do have to wrap up, but are there any last words that you wanted to say before we end our time together today?
[00:44:42] Alexandria Turnbow, LMHC: Um. I don't think so. I really enjoyed this. this is really fun to be able to, converse so easily on things that we're both interested in and knowledgeable on. and to be able to spread more mental health, like education and awareness. like that's really one of the pillars of our practice is learning, healing, and wellness.
And this is one of the ways that I wanna do that. so like I said before, like the link has our website and our newsletter. I would love for you to sign up and, Instagram, the other resources as well. You can find us there.
[00:45:18] Paige Bond, LMFT: Awesome. Cool. I'll make sure listeners that all the links are in the show notes.
So get on there, go and if you're local, go to the workshop. It'll be amazing. So thanks so much for your time today and catch you on the next one.
that's a wrap for today's episode of Stubborn Love. I hope you gathered some wisdom to bring into your love life and improve your relationships. If you enjoy today's chat, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. That'll help this episode reach even more listeners. If you have any questions or stories you would like me to cover in the future episodes, drop me a message.
I love hearing from you. If you need extra support in your relationships, check out how we might be able to work together by hopping on my website @ paigebond.com. Until next time, don't let being stubborn keep you from secure love. Catch you in the next episode.
