Getting to Know Your Different Parts with Attachment Work and Internal Family Systems
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Show Notes
Ever feel cut off from your emotions? Discover how understanding your internal parts can lead to deeper, more fulfilling relationships with attachment trauma expert, Serena Yeager.
03:00 Understanding Attachment Trauma and Parts Work in Therapy
09:41 The Role of Protectors and Exiles
17:09 Attachment Cry and Helping Partners Understand Attachment Trauma
20:48 Window of Tolerance in Relationships
24:49 Navigating Attachment Wounds and The Importance of Boundaries in Relationships
30:10 Challenges in Polyamorous Relationships
33:44 Self-Help Practices for Internal Parts Exploration
41:47 Recommended Resources for Attachment and Parts Work
Serena Yeager is a trauma-informed psychotherapist and relationship educator specializing in helping LGBTQ+, kink, and non-monogamous communities heal attachment wounds and create fulfilling relationships. Using parts work and the mind-body connection, she empowers individuals, couples, and multi-partner relationships to overcome reactive patterns and deepen authentic connections.
Connect with Serena Yeager
Practice website - Expansive Counseling - serenayeager.com
Education and courses - Expansive Education - expansiveeducation.podia.com
Connect with Paige Bond
Instagram: @stubbornlovepaige
Facebook: @paigebondcoaching
TikTok: @paigebondcoaching
Website: https://paigebond.com
Paige Bond specializes in helping individuals, couples, and intentionally non-monogamous partnerships feel grounded, confident, and connected in their love life. She is also the founder of Sweet Love Counseling providing therapy in CO, FL, SC, and VT. Paige loves educating people about relationships through being the host of the Stubborn Love podcast, hosting workshops, and speaking at conferences.
Free Jealousy Workbook:
http://www.paigebond.com/calm-the-chaos-jealousy-workbook-download
Free People Pleasing Workbook:
https://www.paigebond.com/people-pleasing-workbook
Attachment Dynamics Workshop:
https://www.paigebond.com/attachment-dynamics-workshop-sign-up
Disclaimer: This podcast and communication through our email are not meant to serve as professional advice or therapy. If you are in need of mental health support, you are encouraged to connect with a licensed mental health professional to receive the support needed.
Mental Health Resources: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255SAMHSA’s National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 for free, 24/7 crisis counseling.
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Transcript
(generated by AI - please excuse errors)
[00:00:00] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Welcome to the Stubborn Love Podcast. I'm your host, Paige Bond. I'm a Gottman and attachment trained, solution focused marriage and family therapist. I specialize in helping folks design and build their dream relationships through structured therapy and resources. And also use modalities that go beyond traditional talk therapy, like accelerated resolution therapy and psychedelic assisted psychotherapy.
School didn't teach us how to be good at love, so I created the Stubborn Love podcast to help you navigate it. Every episode has actionable tips that will help you create a happier, healthier, and more fulfilling life with the people you love. Join me on this journey of love and learning for the stuff they didn't teach you in relationship school.
Welcome to another episode of Stubborn Love. I'm excited. I have Serena here today who I actually met in grad school. We probably have so much more to talk about there with that. So I've known Serena for quite a bit of time and what's so cool is Serena specializes as a trauma-informed psychotherapist and relationship educator and specializes in helping LGBTQ plus kink and non-monogamous communities.
What's really awesome about that is helping them heal attachment wounds and create fulfilling relationships. So today we are gonna be actually be talking about some really cool topics of attachment, trauma parts work, what the heck those two things are, and how Serena uses both of those to.
Really make some magic happen for their clients. So Serena, thank you so much for being here today. I'm really excited for this conversation. What I would love to do is just have you introduce yourself to the audience, kind of talk about how you even got involved into the mental health field and how you ended up specializing in particularly this population.
[00:02:00] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks so much. I'm excited to be here as well. Good to see you again as well. I'm, serena Yeager.
I'm a licensed mental health counselor serving people across Florida, in person in Winter Park and virtually. And I do specialize in trauma-informed care, specifically for LGBTQ+ individuals, non-monogamous folks, and people who practice kink as well.
I found that parts work is a really great way to go into attachment trauma, but maybe also, I should probably talk about what that is. I don't know. What the background is here.
[00:02:39] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Yes. So I always love to, 'cause I don't know where my listeners are, like sometimes they're further along in their educational journey.
Sometimes this might be the first episode that they ever listened to on this podcast. So could you actually talk about, and explain like heart work and detachment trauma start. Whatever you would like to though.
[00:02:59] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Sure, sure. Attachment trauma is a type of developmental trauma that happens, over the course of you, early life.
Typically, sometimes people will think of trauma as maybe a, a one thing happened. You were in a car accident, were in war. Something happened to you, and like, that's the thing that made me traumatized. I'm having this. Reaction to, but I found that, actually a lot of people, tend to have a number of things that you can't really point to, to one particular instance of what happened, over the course of your lifetime, maybe you were, abused by parents or, even just had, a neglect of some kind, a lack of care and attention that, stuck with you. So some people will, develop an insecure attachment style based on receiving, some sort of abuse or neglect in childhood. Maybe they, they're more, anxious in the relationships moving forward, or more avoidant in the relationships moving forward or some sort of combination of these.
It's something that people come into my office with quite often where they have difficulty in relationships and that's kind of where they find, oh, maybe I do have some, some trauma here, some, some patterns here that need to.
But also individual,
my relationship.
How, how difficult it is for me to feel safe, with another person or having a, a, a real honest conversation with them about how I'm feeling or what my needs are. So that's where we come on into like a lot of, healing from attachment trauma. And if they, if someone's coming in and they, they don't have a lot of attachment trauma or they've, they've healed from it, they might have a secure, style where they feel pretty.
Pretty Okay. Pretty safe, connected, able to work through conflict effectively, things like that. That's, that's kind of where a lot of people I work with are, are, are really doing, a lot of the work in therapy. Parts work is a way to, to do that in a less, like intellectual style.
[00:05:14] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: I've been seeing a lot of that on TikTok, where people will go to their therapist and their therapist says, you're doing this, this, and this.
I don't know why you're coming to therapy. You're so smart. So can you talk about what the intellectualize is? And I'm so excited that this helps with that side. Oh
[00:05:31] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: yeah. Yeah, so the intellectually, yeah, yeah. Like you're saying, has, has really great insight. Yeah, I know. I have a list of things and I come into therapy here.
Here's my, my to-do. And yeah, I already know that I have a difficult relationship with my parents or, I have some self-esteem stuff and, and I can just tell you that, but like, right. So it's a lot of people go, what now? Right, exactly. Like, what do I, what do I do with this? Right. I, I know there's something that I need to change, but I don't really know how to do it, and I'm so caught off guard by any sort of, like, feelings work, and I'm so disconnected from the body that it's, it's hard to really even, engage in the moment.
Yeah, so if, if coming in and, and just sort of talking through and doing talk therapy, maybe, maybe cognitive style, CBT, something like that, is, is one way of, of engaging with this stuff. Another way would be more of a, a somatic or, or body-based approach. And that's where, parts comes in.
So it's. I, I'm, I'm trained in internal family systems, and the, the idea is that there's, there's kind of like a, an ecosystem of, of sub personalities in your head. There's parts of you that are. Protective other parts. There's parts of you that are hidden away and, and maybe, are kind of nursing these, these developmental wounds that you might have.
And instead of coming in and saying, all right, let me just tell you, what I wanna change, or let me just kind of talk through or, say, let thoughts by it out. It's, it's more about getting in touch with. And your feelings and, using a bit metaphor
of mind. To really engage with that.
[00:07:26] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: I'm thinking of this on the fly, but could I come up with like a case study for you? Example of like how you might handle that? Yeah. So let's say I am coming in to see you, specifically because my last therapist, they were just like, you're too good for therapy.
You don't need to be here. You're too smart. And nothing I could do for you. So I find you and, you tell me about parts work and I tell you, I'm feeling really anxious in my relationship. I feel like the problem all the time. I feel like I can't do anything right. And I'm like always riding the edge thinking my partner might leave me.
How would using parts work help that? And like what would you be doing?
[00:08:08] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great example of, of the sort of thing that you, see a lot of where, you're, you're already really anxious. You're like, I, maybe I, I, I know logically that I'm okay, but like my, my body is, is setting all these signals up. I'm, I'm getting muscle tension, I'm getting heart rates up. I'm getting, kind flight, stress response reaction. Step one is to, identify that reaction because some people are so caught off, from those feelings at all that they're, they're, they're not even aware of how activated they are.
And, and, and maybe identifying that as, as a, as a part of you or as, as a sensation, emotion reaction, located somewhere in the body is a good place to, create a, a better relationship too. To that response. So like, yeah, maybe there's a, like a scared part that says, if I don't, respond correctly to my partner or, or say the right thing all the time or, or what have you, I'm gonna be alone. And, and that, that feels like death. That feels like, the, the end of, of all things, like my, my nervous system could be, could be saying like, all right, we have to, respond to this, to this threat by, going into like a, like a, like a reaction. And. Maybe that would be a protector.
That's, that's coming up and saying, okay, we have to, we have to whatever, whatever the coping skill is or, or whatever the, defense mechanism is, right? Like we have to, people please, we have to perform, we have to yell to be heard, we have to, remove ourselves, all these kind of stress and reactions, are, protective parts that maybe are, saying, don't look at this, this hurt part over here. That, that really feels, unlovable or, alone or unacceptable or, or whatever, whatever the, the, the burden is. Mapping it out like that of like, okay, maybe there's, a few different roles here that are all interacting with each other, and you can, you can feel that reaction in your body.
And then also, hopefully once we get that to, to step back, that that protected part to step back, we might be able to, to, to really communicate with. That hurt part or that, that exile that was, separated out, because, at some point he, he felt unacceptable.
[00:10:48] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: I'm, I'm wondering when you mention these certain parts, is it.
Really, like based in, in shame or these negative core beliefs that people just think about themselves. So like the, I'm unlovable, I'm not good enough. I will never be a good partner. Like all of those things. And the protector part may be protecting person from like, facing their shame head on because like that's that's intense, right?
Yeah.
[00:11:19] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Oh yeah, definitely. There's, there's a lot of that. Yeah, it, it feels like you, you can't look at this. We're, we're going to to, to keep you away from that. And that's another reason why I think going that a kind of like a cognitive approach isn't always helpful because, sometimes the, the, the protective mechanisms and, and the strain and everything else will just throw up a wall.
And, won't really let you get back there unless you're, you're very respectful and, and, and willing to, to kind of like, dialogue with it. And, and when, when we are in a session like, with clients, I, I will actually have them kind meditate with me or at least, kind of connect with their bodies in the moment where they can, it, it's sort of like a.
Like, almost like a dream state sometimes where you can, you can ask a part to, to step back, or if you have its permission to talk to something deeper and then you just kind of feel it, click. It's, it's really hard to explain.
[00:12:25] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Mm, this sounds so cool and fun. And, I know we're trained in different things, but I feel like there's so much overlap between, using what I use for, for trauma with accelerated resolution therapy, like having people like sort of dive into the subconscious or unconscious, it sounds like. What? Yeah. This allows you to do in that work, right.
[00:12:48] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: It's, it's very, very similar to that. Yeah. I actually just got trained, in that over the summer too, so it's been kind of cool to, to start to put these together.
Oh, so cool. Yeah. But in, in a RT there's a lot of that. Your, your brain is going to know exactly what it needs to do in this moment, and we're just kind of here to guide you through that process, and you will, when. When you're doing, when I'm doing parts work with, with clients, I, I really don't know what they're gonna see. And sometimes they might have kind of like an image in their mind, or, maybe it's more of like a, like a sensation, or something else. But like, if, if we get to the point where we've, we've built a lot of trust over time and, and a lot of work to, to kind of get back in the body, they, they might be dialoguing with.
Multiple levels here. And, and maybe it's like, oh yeah, that, that exile is at the end of a long hallway and locked behind the door. And I'm, I'm like, oh, okay. What, what if you sent it, a letter, and, and then they internally can, can kind of like feel that happening. And it's, and it's really cool to see it.
But then maybe it's like, okay, well we have this, this ongoing relationship now where we can actually check in and, and ask that part. Okay, what do you need from me? What, is there something that I can offer you? Or, is there any sort of updating that needs to be done? Sometimes, that the parts don't really know.
That you're safe in this moment or, or that you are, the age that you are now, a lot of times this is maybe, a, a really young part, like a, like a childlike part who thinks, okay, I'm, I'm very much, out of, out control, out of power I may be, I need to be productive in that way.
[00:14:39] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Mm, yeah. I can see how that could so like easily connect to like attachment trauma showing up.
In, in the room when, in, in playing out, maybe in their relationship and, and feeling really triggered in situations where maybe the situation itself doesn't, set you up for it, but because of the trauma when they were younger. Yeah, that's what happens. And, and definitely needing something like Parts work to be able to like make that kind of connection.
I hope you're enjoying this episode. I wanna take a moment to invite you to sign up for my free Attachment Dynamics workshop. I have partners use this as a foundation before we get started in relationship therapy.
By watching this, you'll learn how to recognize negative communication patterns, understand how power dynamics show up in conflict, and most importantly, discover ways to turn conflict into opportunities for deeper emotional connection. And the best part, this is free for you. Make sure to head to paigebond.com or hit the link in the show notes to access it for free.
Now let's get back to the episode.
So you've mentioned a couple of different parts, the Protector, the exile, and I think that there's even more than that. Can you touch on the others that show up?
[00:16:01] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. Protectors are, are also usually broken up in a couple different types. So there's there's managers and there's firefighters.
Control things. They want to keep things, really predictable or, prevent bad things from happening to, to the exile. And the, the firefighters more like, okay, we are going to, yeah, put out the fire. We're going to, just kind of, really, whoosh up and, get, get the reaction in the moment to, to get you out there basically.
Yeah, so that could look like a lot of different things for different people. I, I like the, the, the, the map of, the different, trauma responses as parts. So maybe there's a, a fight part, flight part, a freeze part part. And then I've also seen, if you, if you map it out, there's like a, the, attachment cry part, that that'll come up.
[00:17:04] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: I've never heard of that. Yeah. Okay. Tell me what the attachment cry part is.
[00:17:08] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. When. When you're, when you're a small child, you, you don't have, the ability to care for yourself or, or really even communicate, and ask for things. So the, the most primal, basic, communication that we have is, is pretty much this like, crying out like, I, I I need, I need something from you.
As, as a, as a caregiver or the parent or, another adult in the area. And, the, the, this is actually a very developmentally appropriate and, and helpful thing, in, in adults that looks more like, requesting your needs or, or things like that. But if it's something that maybe wasn't met, if you have this, this kind of truncated attachment cry, that's where you, you get some of these developmental traumas coming in. Okay. I'm either going to not speak up at all because I, I know that it's, it's pointless to, to let people know what I need. I, I won't, get those needs met, might make it worse and might get punished, or, some, something similar to that. So a lot of people will have this park up where maybe, if you've been traumatized, it can look more like, okay, I'm going to either, really try hard to, to make you listen to me, or I'm gonna not speak up at all. So that's a part that can come up and, and might be, causing issues potentially in, in a relationship where this person doesn't know how to get their needs met.
They might not even know what their needs are. Or, or how to communicate them.
[00:18:46] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: This is so interesting. I haven't heard of Attachment Cry, so I love, I mean, this is why I do the podcast. I love being educated, so thank you so much for like, going into that. Thinking about how this shows up as attachment trauma, I'm, I'm wondering how like partners back at home who, like when you're doing individual work Yeah.
How might you help like your clients, since if you're seeing them individually, you only have them in the room. How might you be able to help them also help their partner understand all of this and like actually help the relationship Because it's not only the person going through that attachment trauma, like they need a partner or more that is going to be supportive to help them through this process.
So what do you do about that when you're working one-on-one only?
[00:19:37] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. That's a really great question. I ideally they would also be working in, relationship counseling. The perfect worlds. You'd have, you'd have at least, three sessions a week. One for yourself and your, your, your partners and, and then the relationship.
But I'll, sometimes I'll, I'll end up, kind of walking them through, understanding what's going on themselves in, in a way that maybe they can hopefully. Explain it to a partner and say like, all right, it's actually not, it's not personal. There's, there's something happening in me that, maybe is actually, more to do with something that happened in the past that I think that's actually happening a moment right now. So sometimes that can help to, to make it little less personal. But then also, we work on.
Able to, to to stay present and stay connected, and, and stay within that, window of tolerance so they're not triggered as much. I, I don't know if any of that is, is even, common knowledge yet or not.
[00:20:45] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: It lands for me, but I'm in this field. So can you actually explain what the window of tolerance is to the audience?
[00:20:52] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. In, in the nervous system, and I kind of touched on this before with the different stress responses, but there is a, it's kinda like a series of levers. There's a sympathetic arousal and. Which will kind of bump you up into, like the fight or flight response. And then there's parasympathetic around, deactivation that will kind of bring you back down.
If you go into dorsal, it's more of a shutdown state, and that's refined freeze fawn. But basically there's, there's something in the middle. Of like your optimal state where you're, you're calm, you're connected, you're, able to communicate, you're, in the present moment. I've heard it called, rest and digest and, that's, that's what we call the, the, the window tolerance's when you are either in, in that space, most of the time or are kind of bumping up out of it and then, and then back down under it.
In an appropriate way. Like, okay, I'm, I'm kind of stressed about this thing and I'm, I'm getting, I'm getting activated, but then I'm able to kinda calm myself and come back down into it. Or, I'm, I'm feeling, maybe like I like need to kind of shut down a little bit. But yeah, it's, it's something that if, if you're feeling, if you're feeling triggered.
For most people, that's gonna be, I'm, I'm, activated out of this state. And, and maybe I'm, very, very stressed, or I'm argumentative, or I'm, afraid and I, I need to, to remove myself or I'm shutting down. That sort of thing. This can feel overwhelming because it's a nervous system response.
It's, it's the body responding to a perceived threat in your environment as if you're under attack. And, a a, a fight with a partner can be really stressful, but it's also a lot of times it's necessary to, to really come back together and, and have that. That repair afterwards and have that constructive conflict and things like that.
We're, we're often working on trying to, help them stay calm enough that they're not getting, getting flooded, by these, these stress responses. And maybe that looks like doing some sensory based coping skills. Know. What in your environment helps you feel more centered? Is that like, certain movements?
Is that certain smells, is that certain temperatures of, ice water or things like that? But we're really trying to figure out like, okay, when you are, are in that, that heightened state. Something, something about this interaction is setting off something from the past, or, reigniting some of that, traumatic stress, like what do you need in that moment?
And sometimes that's a coping skill. Sometimes that's like, I, I need a, a ten minute walk and just, just to kind of get out there and, and use up some of this, this, activated energy, that sort of thing. But overall, we work on trying to develop these, these skills so that they can regulate their emotions a little bit more effectively.
And hopefully kind of come back and, and have this constructive conflict with their partners.
[00:24:20] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Yeah. And ideally the, the partner that you may not be working with in this mm-hmm. Scenario is gonna be willing to have those harder conversations, but Yeah. Since. This is life and life doesn't always give us the most ideal situation like that.
I am kind of curious, I'm sure you see this in your practice 'cause I see it all the time where the the partner who thinks through the problem and the relationship, so we'll keep running with this anxious person. Example. What do you do when they're coming to see you? They're working through these attachment wounds.
They're showing up for the parts work, yet they're. Partner is still pointing the finger and saying, you're the problem, fix it. I'm not going to reassure you. You shouldn't want like really basically like negating all of the attachment needs that they're trying to get met. So what do you do in a situation like that?
'cause I'm sure that triggers the attachment wounds to be even deeper. Yeah. Oh
[00:25:19] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: yeah, definitely. In this hypothetical scenario we're talking about someone who is, identifies with an anxious attachment, and maybe they're with a, a more, avoidant partner. You get kind of this chase dynamic where, the, the more they pull away, the more I chase and, and now, okay, now I'm even more anxious.
And they're, and they're, they're more. Upset with me, and then we just kind of loop from there. I think part of that is, is, is boundary work and oh yeah, yeah. Oh yes. Yeah. 'cause, 'cause otherwise, if, if this person is, depending on what the trauma is, maybe they've. They've their entire lives that, you're, you're too much, right?
Or, or having any needs at all is actually some sort of, inconvenience to everyone else, or, or you have to, to earn, affection and attention, even a little bit. I, I, I really try to, to, to reinforce my clients that it's not, it's not just one person who is, at, at fault or, or we're not looking to, to blame one person.
The other person, even if, one of you is having, a, a visibly harder time and maybe is even having panic attacks like that, we're. Their piece and their, their partner has, a, a different piece and then there's kind of like a, a, a, a system in place between the two of them, and maybe that's a different, different piece entirely,
[00:26:52] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: mm-hmm. I'm so glad you're speaking to that because I think oftentimes we. So often get into this place where we're working one-on-one with this person, and then we can, as therapists maybe feel stuck because.
The other partner is not looking at their contribution to that dynamic. And I'm really happy you brought up boundaries. I don't think that's talked about enough in attachment work and, 'cause I think when people hear boundaries, it's like, oh, you gotta push people away or have a barrier and like. I think we have so much like, I don't know, like where people are getting this idea, but we have so much that we're up against, I think as therapists of like reeducating and like offloading some of those like unhelpful messages about what boundaries are.
So can you sort of talk about if we're working one-on-one with someone in that dynamic and we're working through attachment trauma and using parts work, how would we set up individual boundaries for. Protecting those parts that we're trying to care for more.
[00:28:00] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. Yeah. As far as that goes, I mean, I think some of that is, is not taking on all of the responsibility.
Like, okay. My. People please as, as much in this scenario where I'm just like, all right, let me, lemme figure out how it's, it's all my fault. That could look like separating yourself from, from a partner but doesn't obviously have to. But saying, okay, this, this, this, this traumatized part of me, this, hopefully trying to create a, a, a more caring relationship with, and, and really show caring consideration for, a, a boundary could be like, all right, I'm going to, to, to really show that part compassion. And, and maybe that looks like, nope. Taking some time separately or, or saying, okay, I'm, I'm, maybe I'm not going to, spend as much time prioritizing, people or situations where I.
Can't make requests or have needs or express those needs.
[00:29:12] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Ooh, that's a really good, I woo. I love that boundary so much. Yeah, because why are we prioritizing people who aren't letting us prioritize ourselves and our needs? Oh, that's so good. Thanks for going down that route with that. I know that was like way off script for like what we were talking about today, but I thought like I had to catch you.
Oh,
[00:29:35] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: that's great. Yeah. It's, it's all very connected. And it's interesting to, to really see all the different threads and, and trying to put, trauma therapy with, relational work, with attack trauma, with, developing a relationship to your body and to your psyche. I, I think it's a, it's an approach that you, you kind of have to do altogether.
[00:29:59] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Yeah. Yeah. Comprehensive. Just if you do one, there might be parts missing. Yeah. Yeah. One other thing that I wanted to touch on before moving into a different kind of vibe here is I wanted to talk about, like in polyamorous relationships, a lot of themes that can show up, maybe jealousy, comparison, struggling with like finding time, prioritizing time.
And I'm curious if we may be able to like pick one of those or just something else on your mind and talk about how to work with that in the attachment trauma work and, and the parts work that shows up. 'cause all of that can be highlighted. Especially if we maybe were formed as a monogamous relationship and then transitioning into a non monogamous one.
And now we may not have that, like protection, like pseudo protection, I have air quotes on. But that protection of like, oh, like everything's fine. There's no one to compare myself to, or there's no one to be jealous of, or there's no one to be. But now here we are like. Intentionally doing that dynamic.
So I'm so curious on your thoughts, how you might work with that.
[00:31:14] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So many thoughts on that. I know. Well, and especially if we're talking about, okay, so specifically in the, the monogamous couple that decides to open their relationship, I think, some of their, their security typically has gone, has come from, kind of knowing what the script is and, and maybe not even ever really talking about what the expectations are or, how, how do we meet each other's needs? Because there's, there's kind of a, a cultural understanding of like, okay, we, we, we date and then we go study, and then maybe we, get married, get the house and have kids or what have you.
There's, there's the relationship escalator. You can kind of, depend on, or as you just touched on, you're, you're kind of a di a different category than other people, so maybe you can reassure yourself that you don't really have to compete and, and yeah, air, air quotes around, all of that too because you know that, just because you're in a mono relationship doesn't.
But, a lot of times I, I see people, especially making that switch, suddenly they have, more opportunities for those, insecure or, traumatized parts to, to be activated. Maybe that's the, the jealousy maybe that's feeling, unloved or, some, some sort of other conflict. Now you, you have more chances to, to really touch on.
Because it's, it's, it's a completely new scenario. The, the dynamic is not as clear cut. There's not as much of a script. And, and you're having to have, these, these, these, these really, hopefully deep, honest conversations about what you, what you really want and what you're interested in and what you can actually commit to with each other.
And, and, how do we wanna construct this together? What, what style or, best structure of non-monogamy even do we wanna, yeah, so there's, there's a lot more opportunities to feel.
[00:33:22] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Yeah. I think that speaks to just how, how much we may be fooling ourselves in monogamous relationships of like just skating by or covering up attachment wounds when really there, there might be like some healing work to, to be done. I'm curious, I. I know that we've sort of touched on like window of tolerance and like what are some things that we can do for like coping skills? Are there any other self-help practices to explore our own internal parts that you recommend doing?
[00:34:00] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah, that looked like a lot of different things.
Some people will do either, guided meditation work. There's a lot of, parts practitioners that will kind of guide you through some of this. Internal mapping or, or, or help you kind of, interact with and, and, and speak to these parts. But also, anything you could do to, to really come back in that window of tolerance, it's, it's probably going to look like, or it's often gonna look like completing the cycle.
If you're, if you're trying to, speed up. And, anxiety often is like a, a like a flight part. Sometimes you might even like need to run, for instance, your, your body.
[00:34:43] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Get it out of your system.
[00:34:44] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah, yeah. 'cause, 'cause your, your, your body is, is reacting. Like it's literally about to, to run away from a wild animal.
That's where muscle tension comes from. And the heart rate, increase and, the, the breathing getting more shallow, the body's actually preparing to, to run, to save your life, so anything that would be in that vein, I think is, is natural. You know, maybe that's, physical exercise.
Maybe that's, creative expression. Maybe that's really feeling. Like you're able to express your yourself emotionally, via writing, that sort of thing. Mm-hmm.
[00:35:23] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: My favorite is windows down in the car blast, whatever scream, a screamo song I need to scream along to, and that's my creative expression release.
So yeah, all those good tips. Anything
[00:35:39] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Also that really helps you get in touch with what your body's doing, because a lot of the, the parts, yeah, sure. If you're, if you're in the middle of meditation, you might have like a, like an image show up of like, oh, there's a, there's a classroom or something like that, that they're like all sitting, sitting there.
But like, a lot of times it really is just like, okay, what is, what is my, what is my body doing right now? And, and what, what is that trying to tell me? Oh, okay. I, I didn't, I didn't think I was anxious, but, my breathing just changed. Maybe, maybe that's something to get curious about. Maybe that's something to sit with or kind of check in with periodically and, and really, ask yourself like, okay, is that, is that something that, that needs more attention from me right now?
And that's, that's kind of like that, that, parts work that, the more you check in during the day, the, the more of an ongoing relationship you might have to those reactions.
[00:36:35] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: What a good summary, just being more present with yourself can help you tune into like caring for yourself it sounds like.
Okay. Yeah. I'm sure we could spend like, five more days talking about like just this stuff. But we only have so much time here. So is there anything we haven't covered in attachment trauma work or parts work that you really want the audience to even either know about or to like, just give them a place of, like a direction to go, maybe research on their own, but anything else we haven't covered?
[00:37:12] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Oh, I think way back, like maybe in the first, couple minutes of this, you asked me, why, why I do, this work? Yeah.
[00:37:22] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: How was it that you got connected, like specifically with parts where attachment trauma and specifically in these, I would say more marginalized communities that they may not get as much support for compared to others.
[00:37:39] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Trying to put it all into like, like a boxes. It's kind of hard. I think for me it's, it's a response to something that I couldn't really personally find for myself when I was looking for therapists.
Like, way, way, way back, where I've, I tended to be more of an intellectual. I still am, but I, I try to be more, aware of, what my body is doing and what my needs are. And, but, I, like a therapist's office and, yeah. Be able to tell them, yeah, here's, here's all my stuff.
Here's, here's the, stone faced, list of every bad thing that's ever happened to me. Like, oh yeah, you must, you must be fine. It's like, well, well, no, I'm not, I'm not feeling any of it. And I found that especially, as a, as a person from some of these communities. So I am, queer and non-monogamous and, a, a cake practitioner, myself.
Sometimes trying to explain some of my dynamics and, yeah, interactions and, relationship difficulties to people, would be, retraumatizing, to a certain extent where, just trying to explain the, the, the level of, difficulty I was having or, or, how my, my stuff was getting triggered and, and in a way that.
Sometimes a therapist would be like, well, are are you sure you wanna, you wanna do that?
[00:39:12] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: I was just talking to a consult who had the same experience. It's like questioning.
[00:39:16] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah,
[00:39:17] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: questioning you. It's like doubting you or like invalidating the freaking life you wanna have. Like, just because it's difficult doesn't mean.
I don't want it. Oh, I'm so sorry.
[00:39:30] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah,
[00:39:30] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: yeah, yeah. So yeah, that happened.
[00:39:33] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah. And, and I am also someone who has experienced, significant relational trauma going back to early childhood. So it's really important for me to, to be able to do that work, in a way that, understands that there's a, a difference between those things.
Like, I, I, could be. Non-monogamous and have some, some really, complex and, and sometimes, very difficult, relationship interactions as an adult, and also have relationship trauma and, one is not caused by the other. They're just two things that, I probably would need.
Someone to be, at least familiar with, at least open to, to, to working with, in, in a way that that honors, different needs that I have.
[00:40:18] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Yeah. Yeah. So this is really close to your heart. I mean, you, you do this because this is, this is what you were also searching for and, and what you saw that was missing a lot for these communities, it sounds like.
Yeah. I thank you so much for doing this work. I don't think there's enough of us out here, but I think it is growing. Like I see more and more every day that there were more practitioners getting trained and educated and just like softening the edges. So there's hope, I think. Fingers crossed.
[00:40:53] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: I think so.
I, I think we're, we're seeing a lot of, a lot of that honestly. And it's been, it's been really cool to see. Bt q plus work as well, which I think, in, in general, therapists are, moving, moving in the right direction on, and, and learning more about like, okay, well there, there, there are a lot of different ways to be a person, to structure your relationship and your lifestyle and, interact with, with people.
[00:41:19] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Yeah, I believe that wholeheartedly. I mean, that's why I, I do this shit. Like, why, why do we need to succumb to what society has planned for us or the expectations of all these outside sources? So I won't get on that soapbox 'cause I can I can feel the anger in my body already and I just wanna release that.
[00:41:43] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah.
[00:41:43] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Yeah. So thank you for speaking on all of this. Before I have you talk about like where people can find you, can you recommend any particular books, people to follow or just other resources so people can learn a little bit more about parts work or even attachment trauma that you always love recommending me to your own clients?
Yeah,
[00:42:05] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: yeah, definitely. I used to recommend the book attached. Is still, pretty solid, as a, as a basis on attack of trauma. But, the, the clients that I see are, are mostly, nonmonogamous people. So I, I really like, Jessica Fern's books. Just, I, I recommend that even if you're not nonmonogamous, I think it's just a, probably the best, written depiction I've, I've ever seen of like attachment, theory.
Plus the trauma piece. Poly Secure, and then also the, the Poly Secure Workbook and then, poly Wise, which is specifically on like conflict resolution in no relationships. I just, just, just love it. And then also, work and internal family systems. I. No bad parts. Dick Schwartz's a really good introduction to, to the model and that.
I'm still, I'm still learning the model myself, so hopefully like I've, I've explained it in a way, but, but like, read more on it. It's, it's really cool and it's, it's a, it's a great way to, develop that, that better relationship internally. There is a good, collection of like, scripts or, guided, journal meditation type stuff, called the, i, I saved it. It was the daily, the daily parts meditation practice, a journey of embodied integration for clients and therapists. And it has a lot of like, meditations in there. There's a lot of home practice type stuff you can do with that. Also, if you go on the insight meditation timer, there's, there's a lot of people doing, guided parts work, meditations there.
And then if anyone's interested in, more on like the complex trauma piece, which a lot of times that's, that's what you're attaching trauma is, or developmental is. Ariel Schwartz. So she is a psychologist who also is a yoga teacher and does a lot with, trauma and integrating that with parts work perspective. So there's the complex trauma, workbook, and then there's a couple manuals and then some, some just really good stuff on yoga as well. I think that probably covers most of it. Oh. From the clinical side, this idea of, of there being like, mm-hmm. That, that the, stress responses will kind of map onto parts and, and going over the, those, those, those ones that I mentioned, anything by, Janina Fisher, yeah.
[00:44:52] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:53] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: Yeah.
[00:44:53] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Mm-hmm. With a J, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Man, you, really gave a comprehensive direction of where people can go to go learn more. I love that. Thank you so much. But if people wanna learn more about you, where can they find you? Or the stuff that you're doing? Or if they are like, man, this podcast was really good.
I think they can get me. I wanna go see Serena and be a client. Where can they find you and what are you up to? Yeah.
[00:45:26] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: My, website is probably the best place to do that. It's, er, I have a three 15 minute initial consultation that anyone can request on there. I am also, kind of, kind of a side project.
Tangential to some of the things that we've been talking about. I do, have a, an education business where we talk a lot about, non-monogamy, kink, LGBTQ plus, themes specifically for therapists. Right now we're working on some, educational content for therapists, but I want to expand that into maybe some.
Some guides about like, alright, how, how do I open up a relationship or, how do I work on some of this attachment trauma stuff? And that is, the platform's called Expansive Education.
[00:46:13] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Yay. Awesome. And I'm so glad that you are expanding into like. Educating therapists, but also like even more so just like everybody in the broader sense.
But I'm really excited to learn more from you and can't wait to see more of your CEU. So thank you so much for hanging out with me for the past hour. I appreciate you letting me just like pick your brain and learn all about this stuff. It's, it's riveting to me. So everyone listening, I hope you really enjoyed this podcast and I appreciate your time, Serena.
Yeah,
[00:46:44] Serena Yeager, MA, LMHC: thank you so much. I've had a great time talking to you about this stuff.
[00:46:49] Paige Bond, LMFT and Relationship Educator: Sweet. All right y'all, I will have, all of the important links in the show notes so you can learn more, or go find Serena and I'll catch you on the next one. See ya.
That's a wrap for today's episode of Stubborn Love. I hope you gathered some wisdom to bring into your love life and improve your relationships. If you enjoy today's chat, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. That'll help this episode reach even more listeners, if you have any questions or stories you would like me to cover in the future episodes, drop me a message.
I love hearing from you. If you need extra support in your relationships, check out how we might be able to work together by hopping on my website @ paigebond.com. Until next time, don't let being stubborn keep you from secure love. Catch you in the next episode.
