The Science and Benefits of Exploring Ketamine Psychedelic Therapy
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Show Notes
Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, a psychiatrist specializing in psychedelic psychotherapy, shares his unexpected journey from traditional psychiatry to focusing on ketamine-assisted therapy.
Dr. Galindo discusses the differences between delivery methods (IM, IV, oral) and emphasizes the significance of integrating psychotherapy with ketamine treatments for effective healing. He also highlights the importance of allowing clients to confront their discomfort and the transformative power of these experiences.
01:55 Dr. G's Journey to Psychiatry and Psychedelics
14:04 The Science and Benefits of Ketamine Therapy
23:29 Different Types of Ketamine + the Pros and Cons
35:00 Negative Side Effects of Ketamine
39:20 Witnessing Client Insights
Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo is an osteopathic physician and integrative psychiatrist with a deep commitment to understanding and healing the mind-body-soul connection. He specializes in working with high-functioning adults who are struggling with burnout, anxiety, depression, and PTSD, particularly those who have not found relief through traditional psychiatric care. He also has a special interest in supporting former athletes who are grappling with the loss of identity following a sports injury.
Connect with Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo
https://www.innerbloomhealingarts.com/
https://www.instagram.com/innerbloomhealingarts
The Psychedelic Psychiatrist podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-psychedelic-psychiatrist/id1614686656
Connect with Paige Bond
Instagram: @stubbornlovepaige
Facebook: @paigebondcoaching
TikTok: @paigebondcoaching
Website: https://paigebond.com
Paige Bond is an open relationship coach who specializes in helping individuals, couples, and intentionally non-monogamous relationships with feeling insecure in their relationships. She is also the founder of Sweet Love Counseling providing therapy in CO, FL, SC, and VT. Paige loves educating people about relationships through being the host of the Stubborn Love podcast, hosting workshops, and speaking at conferences.
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Disclaimer: This podcast and communication through our email are not meant to serve as professional advice or therapy. If you are in need of mental health support, you are encouraged to connect with a licensed mental health professional to receive the support needed.
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Transcript
(generated by AI - please excuse errors)
[00:00:00] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Welcome to the Stubborn Love Podcast. I'm your host Paige Bond. I'm a Gottman and attachment trained, solution focused marriage and family therapist. I specialize in helping folks design and build their dream relationships through structured therapy and resources. And also use modalities that go beyond traditional talk therapy, like accelerated resolution therapy and psychedelic assisted psychotherapy.
School didn't teach us how to be good at love, so I created the Stubborn Love podcast to help you navigate it. Every episode has actionable tips that will help you create a happier, healthier, and more fulfilling life with the people you love. Join me on this journey of love and learning for the stuff they didn't teach you in relationship school.
I hope you enjoyed this episode. Now let's get ready to rock and roll. Hello and welcome to another episode of Stubborn Love. I'm super excited today because we're going to be talking about psychedelics. I had the pleasure getting to connect with Dr. G, Juan Pablo Galindo, and his wife, Tala, actually I met with a while ago, and they have a really amazing business.
with Inner Bloom Healing Arts, and they're located in South Carolina. And because I wanted to get connected with other practitioners providing psychedelic services, I got to chatting with them, and I wanted to have Dr. G on the show today. So I'm going to hand the mic over to you, Juan Pablo. Can you please introduce yourself a little bit and tell listeners about How do you even got to this place of providing psychedelics in the medicine space as a psychiatrist?
[00:01:49] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah. Well, Paige, pleasure to be here with you. I'm really excited to have this conversation. So, so my name is Juan Pablo. It's like a two for one deal. My mom got on sale. That's been confusing because everyone's like, It's always called me Juan my whole life, and my mom's always just like, no, it's Juan Pablo.
So yeah, that's my name. And yeah, I'm a psychiatrist here in Charleston, South Carolina, and specialize in psychedelic psychotherapy, using ketamine as the medicine at this moment. And just like hearing myself say that sounds pretty unbelievable because I never thought that I'd be doing this, um, as my, like, Primary career, but yeah, it's it's really interesting story I guess like the only way to really tell the story is kind of from the beginning of what I went through growing up So I was a big big soccer player my whole life like obsessed with soccer So my brother and I would always play and my goal was to play college soccer And yeah, like work really hard to compete on that level and then got into college and then third day of tryouts Freshman year I got hurt And haven't played since, that was it.
And so that led down this journey of trying to like, find myself when this identity of being like a soccer player was taken away from me and it was like my whole social circle and like a lot of my, uh, like self worth was tied into this sport and like, so I just like was lost for a long time. Inevitably, that led to going, going to medical school with, with the idea of becoming an orthopedic surgeon because I was going to help athletes like get back to doing what they love, sort of in a way of healing myself of going through that and then hated the operating room.
Like, I was like, well, I don't want to be here doing surgery all day and which was like, man, I thought this is what I want to do. And so then another like existential crisis of. What am I going to do if I'm not like an orthopedic surgeon and psychiatry was the last rotation of a med school that year and so in third year you you do a rotation in every specialty to kind of see like what you want to do so you do pediatrics and OBGYN, internal medicine, and for me, psychiatry was the last one, and
[00:04:10] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Do you get to pick the order of the, what you try out, or it just happened that second?
Usually,
[00:04:16] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: like, sometimes an elective will be like your first one, and typically, people choose what they think they want to do, just so they're like, alright, yeah, this is the one. And so for me, orthopedic surgery was the first one, and then I was like, yeah, this is not the one. So I was like, oh no. And, but then it's usually, uh, scheduled by, like, the medical school.
And psychiatry just happened to be the last one. And at that time, I was, I was dating Tawa, so, now my wife, but, so we met in medical school, and so we were dating, and I remember telling her, like, This month is gonna suck. I don't want to go to like the psych rotation. It's gonna be so lame even in medical school There's like a stigma towards mental health and psychiatry and just a lot of like you why you're going to medical school to be a psychiatrist and like so just like hear all that from family and Really
[00:05:07] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: talk down upon not looking as like a true medical profession even
[00:05:13] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: yeah Yeah, I remember with some of my family members the news of Oh, yeah, I'm not gonna be like a surgeon.
I'm gonna be a psychiatrist. They were like, what? Like, why? Like, why? Oh, you have to go to medical school for that? Like, why? And why, why are you doing that? And, and so, yeah, when I, when I did that rotation, I went into it like, oh, man, this is gonna suck. But then what happened is every day when I would come home, I I would tell Tawa these, like, stories of what I had heard or what I had seen that day.
And Tawa, she was saying, like, You know this is the only rotation this past year that you've been excited? Like, when you come home, like, you, like, you light up and your face is, has a lot of positive affect. And I was like, really? And she was like, yeah, there's, there's something about the psychiatry that you should, like, check out.
And I was like, no. So then I had my own internal struggle and I can't remember who I'd talked to, but one of my mentors in medical school was just telling me that at the end of the day, what really matters is the feeling of the specialty, not the intellectual part of it. And so it's really what you felt like connected to is what one should go into.
And that was psychiatry. I just felt really connected to. The human experience, the infinite possibilities of the human mind and the stories that you would see and yeah, I just fell in love with that and chose psychiatry and then was quickly disillusioned by psychiatry. Yeah, going into residency as a psychiatrist, a lot of the focus is on medicine.
So. Which, which is, you know, that's what psychiatrists do, is they prescribe medicines, diagnose, and treat with, with the medications. And so, yeah, I learned a lot of that, but at the same time, I still felt disconnected from, from the patients in a way, especially like the way the insurance companies want you to.
Deliver psychiatry is like, here's 15 minutes and I'm like, go. And so when I was practicing psychiatry in the traditional sense, it just felt so rushed. And I felt like clients wanted to tell you about what was going on with them. And I just had to be like, okay, like, that's cool. Like save that for your therapy.
And they'd be like, I don't have a therapist. And they, they would say, aren't you my therapist? And I was like, no, it's
[00:07:38] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: confusing for them too.
[00:07:40] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Confusing. And so they'd be like, okay. And yeah, we have like five minutes left. Let's see what we're going to do with like your Prozac. So. Yeah, after, after two years of, of seeing that in, on the residency, I was like, oh my gosh, like, I don't even know if I want to do this.
And, in terms of like, discovering psychedelics, I, um, was a very late bloomer to this, like, a psychedelic scene. Like, I, being a soccer player, it was really, like, our coaches and stuff growing up were really all about, like, don't poison your body, and don't drink, don't smoke. And like your body is a temple and so being like a impressionable young lad, I was like, oh yeah, drugs are bad.
Bad, bad, bad drugs. No. So even like in college, like didn't, didn't use any mind altering substances. And so yeah, it wasn't until middle of residency. So I was like probably 30. 31 or 32. I just so happened to be in the right set and setting with people that I trusted who I could tell were using these substances in a very intentional way.
And then they would tell me about how it has helped them with their like life and their problems and their traumas. And so, yes, I don't know what came over me, but I just trusted. To have an experience with one of these medicines and now I'm here talking to you because that experience really like changed everything for me in terms of just being like wow, there's something about these medicines.
It was specifically MDMA. So like there's something about this that can really like in the right context can be really powerful to help. Someone healed, but also like what I felt was really cool is that like I felt empowered with my own healing Like it was it was like coming from within me. It wasn't like extrinsic Yeah, really like blown away by the experience and I knew about like the research that was going on with with psilocybin and MDMA But I never really paid too much attention to it And so then when I came back from that experience I was like this is something I want to like check out more and then ended up doing my Grand rounds on MDMA and PTSD and in front of like the whole psychiatric department, which was like met with Some like side eyes and like what is this guy even talking about?
And so yeah But eventually I practiced traditional psychiatry for a little bit longer after after I graduated residency and again just quickly became disillusioned by that and then 2019 went out to California and did a year long training in psychedelic therapy And in that training, I also got certified to be one of the MDMA therapists for the MAPS clinical trial for MDMA and PTSD and opened up Inner Bloom, Inner Bloom Healing here in Charleston, South Carolina, specifically doing ketamine assisted psychotherapy.
So yeah, that's a long, very long winded answer to your question, but I hope it kind of like paints a picture of how I ended up very unexpectedly in some ways providing this sort of, this form of treatment.
[00:10:51] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Well, and that's kind of what I really appreciate about your story is it's not a journey that like most people would think about.
It's like you were actually kind of maybe more on the other side of being against, you know, putting in other types of things in your body, like these kinds of medicines and psychedelics. So. I really love your story in particular because it's like, Oh, well, your mind kind of got changed by like your own experience and then seeing like the outcome of like the work you were doing with people.
And it gets me thinking about what is something that you might say to someone who. is kind of anti psychedelics, not to convince them of like, hey, do this because that's not what we want to do and that's not our job anyways, but who may have like misinformation about what it is, what it's supposed to do and how it could affect them.
Like, what would you say now from your own experience kind of being turned around too?
[00:11:50] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, oh my gosh, that's like such a great, great question because it definitely like comes up in You know like cocktail hour or something like at a wedding and like, oh, what are you doing? And you're talking with someone who I don't know like does real estate or is in banking and has no idea like What psychedelic therapy is and then you mentioned that and then they yeah, they have this like, oh either They're really curious about it or they're they're kind of like, oh, that's It's a little too weird.
Let's change the topic. And so that's a good question. Like, how, how do you approach like introducing people to this concept in a way that's not like makes them feel like you're preaching to them to do it and try it. Cause that definitely happens a lot with, with these psychedelic conversations. I guess what I, what I would say is that in, in the context of someone trying to heal themselves at some point.
Like traditional medicine, traditional, like therapy has a limit for certain people. Like for a lot of people, it's amazing and it cures so much and really helps them engage with life. With other people, it helps them a little bit, but it just does not allow them to fully like heal in a sense. And so if there is a medicine that's there that can be done safely, that allows one to heal, Like wouldn't that be an interesting thing to to be curious about or wouldn't that be like a modality that you would want Your loved ones to have access to and really that's the truth of it And then yeah, usually I I talk to them about drugs that are readily prescribed Like all the time like benzodiazepines and stimulants Yeah, like blood pressure medicine like any sort of medicine that has it's like crazy side effects and risks And so it's unfortunate these These certain molecules, because of the way that they affect our mind, have been put through the insurrection, have been like through like a witch hunt, right?
But, but in fact, they're, they're just molecules that in the right context and in the right setting can, can be really useful and beneficial.
[00:14:02] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: It is so interesting, right? Because I guess word on the street is, you know, you hear a lot about ketamine in clubs, raves, things like that. But, It is so different in the way that we use this medicine, and I feel like there's so much misinformation or misperception around ketamine, and I love that you're hitting on the point, like, you know, when used in particular ways, it can provide a very different experience than you might get in other settings.
Could you talk a little bit more about, like, the science around ketamine and, and why, even in your own experience of, whether personal or professional, seeing its benefits for clients and, like, the, the science that supports that?
[00:14:49] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: You know, it's funny, in my mind, I was like, why do you say insurrection?
That's like the wrong word. I think I was trying to say inquisition.
Ah, yes. Yeah,
[00:14:56] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Spanish, like the, the Spanish inquisition on psychedelics, but not insurrection. But yeah, just. So my managerial part of me was like, but yeah, thanks for letting me edit that. Yeah. Ketamine is like such a fascinating molecule.
And you know, when, when we finished our training and with MDMA and psilocybin, obviously both of those are still like schedule one, which, which means there's no medical use in the eyes of the DEA for these. molecules, we would kind of finish our training and then we're like, okay, like now what do we do?
Cause we can't like, unless you're going to go into the underground. But a lot of people were like, Hey, we're actually using this psychedelic assisted therapy framework with ketamine and a lot of us are doing this. And I was like, Oh, like that's interesting because ketamine really actually wasn't talked too much in the training.
Maybe like a couple of lectures here and there, but it wasn't. The focus. And so then I had the research, I kind of mean training and so went back out to California. Everything was in California. So I went back out there to be certified in kind of mean assisted psychotherapy and it was interesting because I remember I think there was maybe like 30, 30 practitioners there and everyone was going around the circle kind of giving their initial thoughts of what was on their mind before going into their first experiential session with the medicine.
So. And a lot of people were saying like, yeah, I don't know about this like synthetic compound. I'm, I'm really biased towards like plant medicine and I believe that like this needs to come from, from the earth and unfortunately this is the only thing we have to work with. So begrudgingly I'm here to just like check this out.
Um, so skeptical and then everyone, yeah. Skeptical for sure. And I was as well. And then we all had like our experience. Or the way it worked is you, you sat for someone and they had their experience with the medicine and then in the afternoon you would switch. Um, so you would have experience with medicine and then you'd also be able to experience holding space for someone on, on ketamine.
And then you would, we would all like come back together and, and share our experiences. And, and it was funny when we were going around the circle sharing. Like so many people were like saying oh ketamine, please forgive me. I'm sorry. Like I talked mess about you because my experience was So meaningful and I remember one person was like i've done ayahuasca like 10 times and this was the most psychedelic experience I've ever had,
[00:17:33] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: which
[00:17:33] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: was like,
[00:17:33] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: that's pretty,
[00:17:35] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: very surprising because ayahuasca is like the psychedelic psychedelic, like it's in a DMT, but there's something about that person's particular experience that they're like, it was, it was just as even more psychedelic for me in this certain way.
And yeah, so when people, a lot of people will like to say that ketamine isn't a psychedelic, I think just because it doesn't work on like the serotonin, um, like the typical, like psychedelic receptor 5HT2A, but yeah, after that experience, I don't think anyone in that room I would say that it's, that it's not a psychedelic and yeah, just learning about like what is actually happening was, was, was really fascinating.
I guess there's kind of like a couple of ways to think about like how ketamine is helping someone like a biological model. So the first thing that's really important to note is that like most antidepressants focus on three molecules, three neurotransmitters, and that being like serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine.
And so the original, like, idea behind depression is that there's, like, this chemical imbalance. And so we need to adjust the level of these three to find the perfect, like, amount, and then, uh, happiness will, like, come to you. And so, and as we know, that works out maybe only about 30 percent of the time that actually helps, and the other 70%, uh, may not, uh, meet the goal.
Those are not good
[00:19:05] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: odds.
[00:19:06] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, that's the best thought. And so there's been another like theory now that not only does it have to do perhaps with neurotransmitter levels, but it may have to do with inflammation. So there's a lot of studies like looking at like inflammatory process. and depression, anxiety, and bipolar disorder, and that there may be a link to like chronic stress and how that affects the brain, which can lead to depression.
So one of the things that ketamine does is that it releases like anti inflammatory markers. And so it basically is kind of like If you had a, if you like bumped your knee and your knee is swollen and you put ice on it, ketamine is kind of like ice to like a swollen mind. So it kind of helps cool, cool it down.
And that's why they believe that it's been really beneficial for treatment resistant depression. So people that have tried like the dopamine and serotonin and norepinephrine medications, no results, but then you give them ketamine. For some reason, now they have a significant improvement. And they believe that one of the reasons is because it's actually working on inflammation.
[00:20:18] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Why don't they make a depression medication that helps inflammation then?
[00:20:23] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, I think they're like, they're trying to figure this out. I think there's been like They've been looking at ibuprofen and seeing if that like helps in some way or like hydrocortisone There's been some like studies with with that and like PTSD.
Wow.
[00:20:37] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, it's really interesting So I think again, this is probably only in the last I don't know ten years that they've even like been thinking about looking at this And so it's fairly new So it'd be exciting to see what else they they come up with in terms of in terms of this But but if you think about it, you know chronic stress Reeks havoc on our bodies.
And so why wouldn't it wreak havoc like in our brain and mind, right? And so yeah, that's why they think it's ketamine like it's particularly useful in that context And and then the other thing that happens is that it it releases brain derived neurotrophic factor I'll call it BDNF. And essentially like ketamine attaches to the outside of this transmitter and then inside the cell it creates all these like different changes and it's almost like a cascade of effects and eventually it will go to this one area that releases BDNF and that tells the brain to create new connections.
So it's like, hey brain, like let's make some new connections in the neurons. And again, if you think of someone that's. And chronic stress you almost like go into survival mode and like we don't have the resources to make these new connections Like let's just shut it all down because we're just trying to survive here And so ketamine kind of comes in and does like a reset to like everything is cool.
Let's just tone it down and also Let's start making new, new growth. Let's have some, uh, it's also known as neuroplasticity. Certainly new, new growth within the neurons and the connections of the cells in the brain. And that's another reason why they believe that it's so beneficial for anxiety, depression, PTSD.
And I think they've done, they've done studies where they've given ketamine just one time and they've done like before and after imaging and they've seen new connections just from one unit. dose, which is pretty remarkable.
Yeah.
[00:22:34] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: It's such a fascinating molecule just from a biological standpoint. And then you add in the psychedelic therapy component, and I think it just has a very symbiotic relationship that can happen for healing.
[00:22:48] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: I hope you're enjoying this episode. I want to take a moment to invite you to sign up for my free Attachment Dynamics workshop. We have partners use this as a foundation before we get started in relationship therapy. By watching this, you'll learn how to recognize negative communication patterns, understand how power dynamics show up in conflict, And, most importantly, discover ways to turn conflict into opportunities for deeper emotional connection.
And the best part? This is free for you. Make sure to head to paigebond.Com or hit the link in the show notes to access it for free. Now let's get back to the episode. Yes, yeah, and I know there's a lot of different ways that people can approach using this type of medicine, right? You can go in to a clinic, you can sit for a couple hours, have your experience without any kind of psychotherapy added in, or you can choose to do it with psychotherapy or other types of Just ways to add in growth for your clients.
I'd love to kind of brush on the type of work that that you do and how you're using ketamine in your own practice, the benefits about it, what you see that is helpful, how that's different from maybe other modalities. I'm personally trained in more so having the clients use the rapidly dissolving tablets, the RDTs, and swishing, spitting out.
And I know that you're somewhat familiar with that experience as well, but from What I know, I think your clinic uses a different model of approaching this medicine being administered. So could you talk a little bit about the different methods and specifically why choosing your specific one that you use in your clinic?
[00:24:35] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, no, that's, that's a great thing to talk about because there's so many like nuance, like subtleties that how this medicine is. being used in so many different ways. Essentially, in our training with Ketamine, we learned how to do the, like, oral, like, lozenge or dissolving tab, and then the intramuscular injection.
That's kind of like, those two modes are sort of like the psychedelic therapy way. There are some a cap so ketamine assisted psychotherapy practices that use IV but for the most part that's pretty minimal. I think the clinics that use IV are usually pain medicine doctors or anesthesiologists and that's just like what they're used to and again that's how they're trained to deliver medicine and they feel comfortable.
They're not looking at it as a psychedelic approach.
[00:25:25] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Mental health focused you would say for the most part.
[00:25:27] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yes, yeah not my Correct, yeah, it's more like the biological, like here, here's the medicine to like help with your depression or chronic pain. But they're not like wrapping it in the framework of therapy in any way.
I heard this from one of my, one of my friends and they, they were saying the difference between IV and IM Is that with, with IV, this is not all the time, but typically what they do is they'll give you the dose of ketamine, say you're going to get 40 milligrams of ketamine with IV, they'll, they'll spread that 40 milligrams out over an hour.
So at the end of an hour, you're getting 40 milligrams. But they're spreading it out as time goes by. And with IM, you get 40 milligrams like all at once. And so he was saying the difference between the two is like that ketamine with IV is sort of like going to play like nine holes of golf. You're like, all right, let's go play some golf.
Like, it'll be fun. And I am is the equivalent of like going skydiving. Love that. So it's like, pick your recreational activity for, for the weekend. And so I am is a lot more like psychedelic because you're just getting so much of the medicine up front. And same thing with the dissolvable tabs. Like if you're holding your mouth and you're getting like a lot of, a lot of it absorbed at one time.
What also is happening is if someone knows that they're getting I am there's almost like people start recruiting like healing energy before they even go on the journey Like when if you're gonna go skydiving, you're like you're already like, okay, I gotta get ready for this I gotta make the jump. I have like the parachute like Before you even jump out of the plane like something's already happening.
And I think with I am that is also Happening like people are okay. I'm gonna go on this. It's gonna be a little bit intense in the beginning, but i'm gonna Like breakthrough and coast through and so I think just the delivery methods I am versus IV It's just one can just be a lot more psychedelic because of the dosing timing and just with I am I used to do the The oral lozenges.
But what happened was that some people like wouldn't feel anything.
[00:27:44] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Yeah.
[00:27:44] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Which I think for the first, for the first time that happens, it's actually like a good thing because people immediately feel like a disappointment. And like that's, then that becomes the focus. Like, all right, like today's theme is disappointment.
And if you're like, oh man, I don't want to, I don't want to like talk about that and how else is. Disappointment shown up in your life, and then like so much fruitfulness comes from that. So, yeah, I definitely appreciate when, and that can happen with IM too, and so that's always like a good thing to recognize when it, when it's happening, when people feel disappointed with, with their experience, but if it happens again, and when they come back again, and I do the oral tab again, and then there's, there's no effect, it just seemed like people were really meh.
Yeah. Taking a lot of time out of their day and financially, this is a lot for people to pay for. And so, so being able to like give someone the like bioavailability of I am and the experience of going into an altered state is just a lot more reliable with intramuscular. And so that, that's why I just switched to using intramuscular just because it has that psychedelic component and it has a reliability of how much someone's.
going to absorb. And then people that have gone to an IV clinic first and then wanted to come do KAP with me have, have just said how it's so nice to not be hooked up to like a machine while they're on a journey. And like the, like the machine will be beeping a lot, a lot of times and blood pressure is being taken.
Like. Like a bunch of times during the experience and, and so it just keeps, keeps bringing them out and bringing them out. And so just having the, the injection allows one to be on your way and not, not be interrupted. And yeah, the medicine sessions that we do with people are three hour long sessions. So it really allows for a lot of space in the beginning.
So like settle in and set intentions of what someone wants to work on. We always do like a meditation to like ground ourselves and then we have give, give the medicine. And then I'm with the client in the room with them the entire time. So I'm, I'm holding space for, for them. And then the medicine experience itself is usually about like 40 minutes to an hour so that they have the experience.
And then around like an hour that they're back down. And then we usually still have about an hour and a half. to then process the experience. Those three hours I feel like is a good amount of time to not feel rushed and until, yeah, allow for a lot of like breathing room to have experience and process.
And then everyone comes back usually the next day or so for like an hour long integration session. And so yes, it's very much in like the psychedelic model of preparation, experience, integration. Um, going back to maybe with some more preparation experience. Like, so it's kind of a cycle that, that happens.
Yeah. And so I, I specifically work in person with clients and that's just like a personal choice. I love, again, that's why I fell in love with psychiatry is being able to have the human interaction in person, those that do your work as well. And because that's definitely needed. And it's just based on like, My comfort and what you what you enjoy doing but but for me This is kind of how I would like to work with the medicine and it's been working well.
[00:31:18] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: yeah I really appreciate you going into detail about some really stark differences between the different methods of Administration and how that can impact the experience. I don't know why I never even thought of it You know with the IV clinics doing it that way That you're hooked up to the machine, you're like, your arm has this freaking needle in it, you know, giving you, you know, the administered medicine and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I would, I would hate that if I were going through a ketamine experience because whenever I've had my own personal journeys, I'll shift between being like stone cold still for a period of time, but then I'll get like moving kind of depending on what the music is providing.
So. I could imagine with I Am, you're, you're able to see your clients really drop into a really great experience for themselves.
[00:32:09] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Correct. Yeah, exactly. It just provides a lot more movement and something else to note is a lot of times with, with any psychedelic experience, there can be these moments of, they can be very difficult.
So like emotions. such as anxiety and fear, like panic come up and I've had clients who are, this is happening at the IV clinic. And so they're feeling like really anxious. And so then what happens is the, the practitioner, uh, like nurse practitioners, the doctor comes in and, and just say, Oh, you're feeling anxious.
Like here's a little bit of like Ativan. And so it's like. Immediately rescuing someone from discomfort, which in a way, like I'm trying to bring people into discomfort, not purposely, but like, we're very open to the experience of discomfort because
That's life.
[00:33:04] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, exactly. That's life. And that's where a lot, like a lot of people's certain like traumas or certain things that's like been difficult for them.
And that's like where it's living. And so when someone is feeling anxiety, We're able to be like, okay, like, let's be curious about it. Like, where do you feel in your body? What is it saying to you? Like, have you ever been able to just be with it as it is without needing to change it? And just like that, for people to feel safe, to explore discomfort, I think is such an important thing to not miss and to not overlook.
And so with I Am, again, like, you just pushed out the plane. But luckily, there's no ground that you're gonna hit, so you can just free fall, and once you realize that you're safe to explore, then it can be really rewarding.
[00:33:56] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: I have some nitty gritty questions about I Am Just because I am honestly ignorant to that process.
How do you go about choosing where the injection site is? Is that something that the client tells you? Is that something that you just recommend since you're the doctor? Or how does that go?
[00:34:14] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, yeah, usually, so yeah, intramuscular has to go into the muscle and knee. The easiest place is like the good old, good old deltoid.
Muscle yeah, you can definitely do other parts, but it's just the most easily accessible and it's pretty easy to identify The the deltoid, but I think most people do that I'm, not sure if other people use a different muscle group, but definitely Like packs a punch, you know, it's a lot more volume than Like a little vaccine.
And so people are like, Whoa, kind of feels like when you use like a dead arm and like middle school and someone like, so definitely like, uh, packs a little punch, but we always like massage the medicine in and then that usually it goes away. Yeah.
[00:34:57] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Sounds really relaxing. I love that. Also, it sounds like as far as the time wise, it seems pretty on point with the rapidly dissolving tablets, troches, because that's usually around 45, 75 minutes. So it sounds time wise, you're, with IM, around that same clearance. I'm wondering if you ever see any negative side effects that come up specifically with I. M. compared to anything else that you've used.
[00:35:26] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: No, just like the usual side effects with ketamine and then the main things that come up for people. Well, the one thing we always look for is the blood pressure. And so ketamine naturally will raise someone's blood pressure, but it's like if you had to walk up two flights of stairs and then you took your blood pressure, nothing crazy, but if someone has a really high blood pressure and untreated and then you give them ketamine, it could possibly go into a dangerous level.
But the other thing that mostly Can happen in the room is, is nausea and that's usually maybe like one out of 20 people will get that and then typically we'll, we'll say up front, like, I am a nauseous person. So, like, in car rides, they get easily nauseous and so, like, free treat with Zofran and that usually, like, really mitigates the, the effect, but I think, like, what I am the main side effect.
That can happen is that initial feeling of anxiety because, because the medicine is coming all in at one time, the initial, uh, experience can be a little bit like, whoa, like this combobulating, like almost like you're tied to like a, like a spaceship for a little bit and you're, you're kind of like in this turbulence.
And then typically then you like break through the clouds and then you're, you're like coasting but but with IM, that, that definitely is something that we're, we're always like preparing people for and letting them know that in the beginning, it definitely can feel a little bit, uh, anxiety, but we'll work with people's breath and that in those moments, like going back to the breath is, is really, really important.
And then we're always there to like reassure people and help them through that. But yeah, that's kind of like the main thing with, with I Am that, that I see.
[00:37:13] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Yeah. Beautiful. I mean, it sounds like still even with knowing that there could be side effects or there could be the nervous feeling you do your best to Give your clients all the tools that they can to make sure they still have a really great fruitful experience.
[00:37:29] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, exactly. I think there's only one time someone had a panic attack and they had a history of like panic attack daily, daily panic attacks. And so when they came in for their first session, they were really, really nervous. And so we gave, we gave a dose and, and then she was like, yeah, I feel like I'm gonna have a panic attack and she started like, like tensing up and just like, oh gosh, like here it comes.
And what was interesting is, I don't know why I said this, but I said it like in a very like playful way, I was, I was like, all right, let's have a panic attack. Let's do it. It's panic attack time. And so I was like, let's, let's actually like invite it in. Let's like celebrate the panic attack. We like went all in on this panic attack.
But it was, it was like, wow, that was the first time that anyone's ever allowed me to have a panic attack or like, The first time that I felt there wasn't something wrong with me and that there was something like just to be experienced. So that was really awesome that the side effect of anxiety created a panic attack but then led to something really beneficial for the client to witness.
[00:38:34] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: I love hearing that story and I think that's just like it happened exactly as it should have because this medicine Is supposed to and does bring out these things that we are battling with and it kind of shows us. Oh, I guess we can handle it, or here is the way to, to manage this better, to get through this hard, difficult thing you've been struggling with.
So that's such a beautiful story that you shared.
[00:39:00] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:39:01] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: So cool. Of course. Panic Attack Party. I'm going to try that out with my therapy clients. We'll see how I do with that. So we got to start winding down, but is there anything else just to note about, Ketamine in general, or I am in general, that you would like to leave listeners with before we kind of wrap things up.
[00:39:23] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: The main thing that I would like to share is just how grateful I am to be able to offer this. And even though I'm in, in like the doctor, like therapist chair and patients are in like the treatment chair when people come out of the medicine. I feel like a lot of times like the roles are switched and that I am learning so much from them.
[00:39:47] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Oh, yeah. It's like for you, huh?
[00:39:50] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah. And I'm just like in awe of their own inner healing, like experience and their The empowerment that they have and the insights that they're having on their own.
[00:40:00] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Yeah.
[00:40:01] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: I'm not saying anything. I'm just witnessing it. And I'm like, wait, that's like amazing. And I'm like, oh, that can like work for something that I'm dealing with.
And so I'm just so grateful towards the The patients and the clients and the people that have the courage to step into this space with me because they are helping me as, as much as, as I'm trying to help them and they are teaching me so much. So yeah, I just wanted to express the gratitude to the people that have the courage to.
To do the work, the work with us. It's pretty remarkable.
[00:40:32] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Yeah. And I know we chatted a little bit before we hit record, but it's really clear that you love your job, that you love the work you do with people. And I just want to say that's a refreshing take to, you know, have, you know, with a psychiatrist, because I know that's not so, and so I appreciate this take and how you really view treatment as more of like this collaborative approach and almost you kind of as the student at times.
[00:41:00] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, I know, exactly. Yeah, and that's what I think keeps it so refreshing is that you never know What the day is going to bring and there is a lot of like quiet time with with this work Once the patient is in the experience depending on the client sometimes the clients are talking throughout the whole experience and engaging and Helping them like some people want to get down on on a mat and And do some yoga and, but other times people are just very quiet and immersed in their experience and I'm just holding space for them.
And it's a very peaceful moment and the music's on in the room for me and then they have it in their headphones. And so I'm, I'm hearing the music too. And so it allows me to drop in and do some meditation. And so, yeah, I think it's, it's a really unique way to. To be a psychiatrist, for the most part, it's not, not what most psychiatrists are doing, but I think it, for me, I just feel very, like, aligned to it.
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.
[00:41:54] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Yeah, you're welcome. Well, I would love for listeners to know a little bit more about you, if you can speak to, just, What you have going on, where you're at, if they wanted to reach out to you, I know you also do personalized retreats if someone wanted to even fly into South Carolina to come work with you.
So can you talk a little bit about that and how people would come reach out with you?
[00:42:15] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Oh yeah, of course. And so the main way to, to look at like the work that we're doing and kind of like educate on what our offerings are is to go online to. uh, innerbloomhealingarts. com. I also have like an Instagram.
It's innerbloomhealing. And yeah, so we, we started offering these little like mini personal retreats. And so we've had a couple of people who've come out of town and we'll initially do like a zoom intake. Preparation that just make sure that this is a safe and from a medical and psychiatric standpoint And then what we'll do is we'll schedule usually it's like two medicine sessions like back to back So one day i'll have a medicine session And then in the afternoon, they'll be paired like with like a massage therapy and so it's been really fascinating to see how how that has been because Someone will come in for the medicine session, those three hours can be pretty intense intellectually, emotionally, and then they have like a little break and get some snacks and then move them over, bring them over to the next room where the massage therapist is already set up, and then there's all the somatic healing, like all the body.
healing that happens and we have an amazing masseuse that we work with who's like trauma informed, medically informed with trauma therapy and such. She's so in tune with the clients are going through and people have just had really great feedback about. The dual modalities in the same day and then the next day we'll do another Medicine session and then depending on what the client wants bringing like a sound healer to be like the second Aspect of the journey or sometimes it'll be coaching session in the afternoon And and yeah, so that's kind of like a little mini Retreat offering that we're able to do cap then we're also able to incorporate some some cool Like modalities that again can be very Symbiotic in the healing and yeah, and people stay like in little nearby hotels and being in Charleston, South Carolina is a pretty cool place to visit for like the weekend.
And so people have had fun, uh, come with like a family member and so this family member will stay with them and, and they'll go out to eat at night. And then do their sessions the next day. And so it's been really, uh, cool to be able to talk for that and we've gotten some good feedback.
[00:44:31] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Yeah. Sounds like it's just a really the best ideal way to have like a mental health wellness weekend.
So I just really wanted to highlight that offering since I thought it was so unique and it's not just stuffy. You're here for three hours and you're done. Like you really provide a lot of services to help people. And I don't know. It's just great. So
[00:44:54] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: yeah, I know. Thanks for bringing that up.
[00:44:56] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Yeah. And you also have a podcast.
Can you share a little bit about that with listeners if they wanted to check out that?
[00:45:04] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm like the worst at self promoting. I forgot about that. So I appreciate you bringing that up. Yeah. So I have a podcast. It's called The Psychedelic Psychiatrist. Yeah, it's on all platforms. I'm mostly talking about ketamine.
I recently recorded a podcast with a client. Who did six sessions with me and and she was so amazing to volunteer To share her experience of what that was like for her And I feel like that's going to be a cool episode to to share. There's not too many patients there Are able to like share their experience in that way and so Yeah, very grateful towards her to to share share that and so i'm excited to to release it soon And planning on doing some more and and hopefully you can come online and and then I can interview you because it's been really wonderful Being with you here today.
And so it'd be cool to switch the roles.
[00:46:01] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: Yeah, I'm totally down and I'm so excited for that episode to hear things from the client's perspective. I think that's like something that we don't get too often. So that is so exciting and yeah Yeah I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with everyone today and letting me pick your brain and talk a lot about Ketamine and the experience and how you like to use it in your work.
So I really appreciate your time.
[00:46:26] Dr. Juan Pablo Galindo, Integrative Psychiatrist and Host of The Psychedelic Psychiatrist Podcast: Yeah, thank you so much, Paige. Yeah, it's been amazing. Good.
[00:46:29] Paige Bond, LMFT and Psychedelic Therapist: All right, listeners, I'll make sure to have all kinds of links to get in contact with Juan Pablo in the show notes. So you can check out Instagram, listen to the podcast, or go to the website, book a consult and see if ketamine might be good for you.
Alright, until next time. And that's a wrap for today's episode of Stubborn Love. I hope you gathered some wisdom to bring into your love life and improve your relationships. If you enjoyed today's chat, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. That'll help this episode reach even more listeners. If you have any questions or stories you would like me to cover in the future episodes, drop me a message.
I love hearing from you. If you need extra support in your relationships, check out how we might be able to work together by popping on my website at paigebond.Com. Until next time, don't let being stubborn keep you from secure love. Catch you in the next episode.
